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dt36

Pinto - The Resurrection

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The plan here is to try and build a decent budget Pinto from a dead 202 unit, kindly donated to myself from Preacherman. 

Having stripped it down, it's a little bit poorer than I initially expected. Main concern is the crankshaft and conrod journals. 

I have a day off today, so had an early start on it and am about to take it over the Machine Shop for sentencing. 

Plan is to take it out to 2.1cc, lighten & balance crank, flywheel, clutch and pulley. If crank can't be ground to save its current state, then the thoughts are to see if it can be offset to a 2.2. However, this means more expense and different conrods. 

Deck is going to be machined so that pistons protrude by .25mm.  I will then calculate head gasket thickness for a CR between 10 to 10.5:1.

Head  is already done by Vulcan to a Stage 1 build with a Kent FR30 Cam. This currently sits in my car, on top of the engine I'm running at the moment. This is a very good bottom end, but has a CR of about 8.5:1 as it used to run a turbo. 

Fingers crossed and will on keep you updated. 

 

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I would calculate your required compression ratio before arbitrarily going for a 0.25mm protrusion .

Finding a gasket at 93.5 or more that is over 1mm crushed has been a problem for me in the past, if you use a 1mm gasket such as Adjusa you will have a squish distance of 0.75mm and that for a road engine especially if you rev it will be tight enough to show on the piston surface.

i would be happier with 0.9mm

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Would agree with Snapper on that one do your calcs first before grinding a given amount off the block.

do you know the chamber cc of the head ? So you can prep the new block before stripping your original engine.

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The Machine Shop I'm using is Lyons of Brynmawr. We discussed exactly what you have both just stated and agreed on decking the block flush with the pistons. Therefore, no . 25mm protrusion now. Both fair comments and thank you. 

Cylinder head chambers are 48cc and I haven't planned on skimming the head. CR will now probably be less than initially planned, but I can live with that. 

Crank looks to be good to go and he doesn't think there'll be any issues machining it, as long as it passes crack testing. 

3 conrods are good, but the one that was spinning its bearings is getting binned. He has a load of rods there, so donating 1 to the build. These will all be worked to the same weights, or as close as. 

About to order a billeted crank pulley with teeth now from Turbosport, as I want to future proof this build for Jenvey Heritage Throttle Bodies at some time. This way I'll get it balanced to the crank now. 

So far, so good... :-)

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Decking the block now gives you options, I would do a minor skim of the head to make sure it's flat.

from what you have inferred, I think there has been much more detail discussed with the machine shop than you are imparting.

i am very OCD with detail so forgive me, some of this is from spending more time and money trying to fix my mistakes in not having a complete plan.

The other OCD is the inability to move forward until I have a complete understanding of the plan.

I do however only impart information in good faith hoping that others can have a shorter cheaper journey than I have.

please keep us informed of progress and good luck.

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Are you going to replace the auxiliary shaft? I only ask because I was reading through some other Pinto rebuilds on here and no one ever mentions its replacement or doing anything with it for that matter? I know they can wear as harshly as cranks and teeth wearing to needles yet you don't hear many concerns or ever see them for sale. Its seems like a bit of a forgotten rebuild item.

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1 hour ago, Snapper said:

Decking the block now gives you options, I would do a minor skim of the head to make sure it's flat.

from what you have inferred, I think there has been much more detail discussed with the machine shop than you are imparting.

i am very OCD with detail so forgive me, some of this is from spending more time and money trying to fix my mistakes in not having a complete plan.

The other OCD is the inability to move forward until I have a complete understanding of the plan.

I do however only impart information in good faith hoping that others can have a shorter cheaper journey than I have.

please keep us informed of progress and good luck.

Will definitely update as the build progresses. 

Spoke with Turbosport earlier to order a lighter Auxiliary pulley and crank pulley with teeth. Trying to get them in anodised grey, so he's checking through his stock in the morning. I'll drop the new crank pulley over then next week when it arrived to get that balanced with crank. 

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3 minutes ago, Rally Pack 2000 said:

Are you going to replace the auxiliary shaft? I only ask because I was reading through some other Pinto rebuilds on here and no one ever mentions its replacement or doing anything with it for that matter? I know they can wear as harshly as cranks and teeth wearing to needles yet you don't hear many concerns or ever see them for sale. Its seems like a bit of a forgotten rebuild item.

I looked at the shaft  teeth and they were OK. There was some back and for movement on the shaft, but I've been told this is normal. 

I will be fitting a new high pressure oil pump. If the auxiliary shift is reasonably priced, I don't mind changing it over, as it's an easy enough task. Good shout... :-)

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Aux shafts don't usually give a lot of problems, check teeth on dist drive and slight end float is no problem. Have a look where the oil seal runs for excessive wear  as that's a potential oil leak.

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Light is good but I would beware of ally for the crank camshaft  drive pulley as they can wear and you wont see it.

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1 hour ago, Snapper said:

Light is good but I would beware of ally for the crank camshaft  drive pulley as they can wear and you wont see it.

No like button for the above comments. All good. 

This is the crankshaft pulley I'm looking at. If I go for a mappable ignition in the future with throttle bodies, then this will do the job. 

http://www.turbosport.net/product/ford-pinto-front-crank-pulley-2/

 

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Ok so auxiliary pulleys for water pump and alternator not the main cam and pump drive.

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On 7/28/2017 at 20:56, Rally Pack 2000 said:

Are you going to replace the auxiliary shaft? I only ask because I was reading through some other Pinto rebuilds on here and no one ever mentions its replacement or doing anything with it for that matter? I know they can wear as harshly as cranks and teeth wearing to needles yet you don't hear many concerns or ever see them for sale. Its seems like a bit of a forgotten rebuild item.

as my pinto wont be running a mechanical fuel pump, my aux shaft has been on a diet in the lathe. the lobe that pushes the fuel pump ive had machined off, lighter!

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On 7/28/2017 at 13:41, dt36 said:

The Machine Shop I'm using is Lyons of Brynmawr. We discussed exactly what you have both just stated and agreed on decking the block flush with the pistons. Therefore, no . 25mm protrusion now. Both fair comments and thank you. 

Cylinder head chambers are 48cc and I haven't planned on skimming the head. CR will now probably be less than initially planned, but I can live with that. 

Crank looks to be good to go and he doesn't think there'll be any issues machining it, as long as it passes crack testing. 

3 conrods are good, but the one that was spinning its bearings is getting binned. He has a load of rods there, so donating 1 to the build. These will all be worked to the same weights, or as close as. 

About to order a billeted crank pulley with teeth now from Turbosport, as I want to future proof this build for Jenvey Heritage Throttle Bodies at some time. This way I'll get it balanced to the crank now. 

So far, so good... :-)

ive got a nice set of kolbenshmidt 94mm pistons for sale! more meat in the 202 and 200 blocks to go to the bigger size!

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1 hour ago, RWL81P said:

ive got a nice set of kolbenshmidt 94mm pistons for sale! more meat in the 202 and 200 blocks to go to the bigger size!

Liking the idea of machining the lobe. Might not be a big amount of weight, but every little helps. I'm currently running an electric pump, so definitely something to consider. Thank you. 

Unfortunately, I've already purchased a set of pistons and rings, so have to decline the offer of yours. They would be sweet with a 2.2 stroker crank though :-)

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3 hours ago, dt36 said:

Liking the idea of machining the lobe. Might not be a big amount of weight, but every little helps. I'm currently running an electric pump, so definitely something to consider. Thank you. 

Unfortunately, I've already purchased a set of pistons and rings, so have to decline the offer of yours. They would be sweet with a 2.2 stroker crank though :-)

well i do have a few spare aux shafts so if i ever go back to a standard pump then i can swap it. not a lot of weight removed but should take a bit of vibration out when the engines doing 8000rpm

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Dropped off new pulley at the machine shop for balancing to crank last Friday. 

Diameter is smaller,  so will also need to get smaller fan belt now. 

Happy with the quality of the pulley though. 

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Update:

Dummy build after crank was reground and cylinders bored to take the new pistons. Then it was decked, so that pistons are flush with the top of the block (no .25mm protrusion as originally planned).  Decided on this after comments from you guys and also from the same advice at Machine Shop.

Spoke with Machine shop yesterday and everything is now finished and ready for collection.  He did say though that when he dynamically balanced the crank and associated components, that my Super Duper Crank Pulley (pic above) was a bitch to fit and he ended up having to ream it to my crank diameter due to it being way to tight and not sitting properly.  However, he's happy with it now. Hopefully the new lighter Auxiliary Pulley from the same company is not going to have the same issue.

All rotating mass from Pulley, Crank, Flywheel (dowelled),  to Clutch Pressure Plate then dynamically balanced. 

Now he's decked the block, he's asked if I can take my head over for him to skim it, so that he's confident that it's been cut on the same machine that my block was decked on.  Decision on what to skim off will be decided when he's measured my head, taking into account that the car will be run on nothing higher than Forecourt Super Unleaded Fuel.  On a plus side, he's not charging me for doing the head, as he just want's to be sure I have no leaks when I fit it. Top bloke...

I have a day off work on Friday, so plan to pick it up then and crack on with the build. Hopefully get some pics of it to post on this thread then as well.

 

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On 28/07/2017 at 13:41, dt36 said:

The Machine Shop I'm using is Lyons of Brynmawr.

These sound like good guys. I've been looking for a new machine shop - I used to go to Bowdens in Bristol but it seems they aren't trading at the moment.

I'd like to get my engine balanced before I take it up a notch in power. I also need to get a new crank pulley made or modified to take a timing wheel for EFI.

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6 minutes ago, Danish said:

These sound like good guys. I've been looking for a new machine shop - I used to go to Bowdens in Bristol but it seems they aren't trading at the moment.

I'd like to get my engine balanced before I take it up a notch in power. I also need to get a new crank pulley made or modified to take a timing wheel for EFI.

What I like about this Machine Shop is that he has a passion for old fords and a lot of time for customers. He has a Lotus Cortina himself. 

I have a spare pulley lying about if you want to chop one up. It's the double type for taking two belts.

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Took my head off the 205 block, currently in my car tonight. Will be popping this over to the Machine Shop tomorrow when I pick my block up.  ?

 

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On 8/7/2017 at 18:42, dt36 said:

Dropped off new pulley at the machine shop for balancing to crank last Friday. 

Diameter is smaller,  so will also need to get smaller fan belt now. 

Happy with the quality of the pulley though. 

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is that aux pulley from a YB? all the pintos ive had my hands on have had square notches for the belt teeth.

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1 minute ago, RWL81P said:

is that aux pulley from a YB? all the pintos ive had my hands on have had square notches for the belt teeth.

It's a lightened version for a Pinto. Got it from the same company I had the Crank Pulley. 

I'll hopefully get it fitted later today and will weigh it up against the original cast version for comparison. 

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2 minutes ago, dt36 said:

It's a lightened version for a Pinto. Got it from the same company I had the Crank Pulley. 

I'll hopefully get it fitted later today and will weigh it up against the original cast version for comparison. 

i was going by where the belt runs if you look at a standard pinto pulley the notches for the belt are square, the ones on yours are rounded same as a yb. im not saying it wont work, but after spending your hard earned cash on your motor the last thing you want is your engine failing.

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