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Rich T

Tyre size on a MK1 Mexico

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Even8ng all. 

What is the standard size tyre on a 5.5x13 Mk1 Mexico steelie?

And what is the brand of choice for these old cars?

Im guessing 13 inch tyres are getting a little thin on the ground these days.

 

Rich

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Id guess at a 165x13?  But not that sure, 185/60x13 would be a choice for modern tyre, still get them easy enough

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185  x 55 x 13 look good. As fitted to kit cars and some fast minis. Plenty on ebay as many oversee this size 

185 60 too tall

175 50 too skinny

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5 minutes ago, Rich T said:

Thanks for your replies.

The car is 1 inch lowered if that makes any difference?

Not at all, as vista says oe size 175/70/13

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I dont want to pee on peoples cornflakes but i disagree with the 175/70/13 pair! Mk1 5.5 are quoted at 165, mk2 5.5 are quoted at 175/70. In either case both would not look cool so go with above sugestions

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Nice one!

 

Ive made a few phone calls to my local tyre suppliers and had a google but cant find anyone who sells any of the tyre sizes quoted above.

Any ideas who to try.

 

I guess 13s arnt as popular as they used to be so no body sells em.

 

Rich

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Try demon tweeks, they list an Avon road legal track tyre equivelent size to a 185/50/

Avon

AVON ACB10 SPORT TYRE

 
AVMACB10-GROUP
£0.00+VAT
Avon ACB10 Sport Tyre
Avon ACB10 Sport Tyre
Reviews
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Review this item
 
Ideal For Lightweight Trackday Cars
Cross Ply Tyre
Original Control Tyre For Caterham Roadsport
Quantity
Lead Time & Availability
Please call us on +44 (0)1978 663000 for availability.
 

Description

Key Features

Q & A

Reviews

 

PLEASE CALL 01978 664468 OR EMAIL SALES@DEMON-TWEEKS.CO.UK FOR COMPETITIVE PRICING AND AVAILABILITY ON AVON TYRES

The Avon ABC10 Sport is a road legal motorsport derived cross ply tyre well suited to lightweight trackday cars. Originally used as the control tyre for the Caterham roadsport championship. Some sizes are available in a soft compound suitable for sprints and hillclimbs.

Recomended for dry weather use.

Available in the following sizes -

TYRE SIZE INDEX RIM WIDTH DIA SECTION WIDTH TREAD WIDTH REVS PER MILE
6.0/21.0-13 (185/50-13) 76V 5.5-6.5" 528mm 185mm 150mm 969
7.0/21.0-13 (195/50-13) 78V 6.0-7.5" 526mm 193mm 175mm 974
7.0/22.0-13 (215/50-13) 85V 5.5-7.5" 556mm 203mm 180mm 921
8.0/22.0-13 (245/45-13) 89V 7.0-8.5" 561mm 221mm 206mm 912
8.0/22.0-15 (215/45-15) 80V 7.0-8.5" 561mm 221mm 206mm 912
7.0/22.0-15 (195/45-15) 78V 6.5-7.5" 551mm 198mm 180mm 929
 

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185/60 youd get from midland wheels, or john brown wheels same people , dont know which tyre places youve tried, smaller probably better they would have to order them in

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4 hours ago, khanlad said:

I dont want to pee on peoples cornflakes but i disagree with the 175/70/13 pair! Mk1 5.5 are quoted at 165, mk2 5.5 are quoted at 175/70. In either case both would not look cool so go with above sugestions

Actually both are correct. 165/13 (so 165/80/13) was standard tyre size but 175/70/13 was the option tyre and most that had the RS alloy were equipped with the option tyre. 

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4 hours ago, Rich T said:

Nice one!

 

Ive made a few phone calls to my local tyre suppliers and had a google but cant find anyone who sells any of the tyre sizes quoted above.

Any ideas who to try.

 

I guess 13s arnt as popular as they used to be so no body sells em.

 

Rich

13" tyres from Camskill tyres

 

 

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They have a good range :)

Is there a prefered brand for these old cars?

I want to keep it in a straight line as much a s possible.  Escorts can be a bit tail happy but i want to hedge me bets.

Got Marshals on my daily and am happy with them.  

But its a world apart handling wise from an old Escort

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I've used Toyo Proxys on a few cars and found to be ok and not rediculous prices either.

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If given the chance I would go for those period remake Pirelli CN36s that some company in the UK were selling. They look so good and are based on P7 compounds so you get the best of both worlds. I sure they put out a 185/60/13.

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Thanks again all.

Looks like Camskill tyres will be getting a call from me at some point soon :thumbsup:

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Hmm

 

It might be worth mentioning that 70% profile tyres came out in 1968.

 

i don't think 60% profile tyres came out untill 1973, and then it was very rare and exclusive.

 

i think MK1 Escorts would have gone for a 185/70VR13 tyre on a 5.5" rim. i think this is the only suitable period tyre that is produced now  https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirelli-cinturato/cn36/185-70vr13-pirelli-cinturato-cn36.html in a 185/70R13

 

But the MK2 RS Escort fitted https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/catalog/product/view/id/1946/s/175-70vr13-pirelli-cinturato-cn36/category/8985/ which are being made by Pirelli as we speak and i hope to have them on the shelf before Christmas.

 

 

185-70VR13 Cinturato CN36 - FULL 600x600.jpg

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 I like 185/60 13s personal preference, most tyres are ok but don't buy Nankang , don't grip and sometimes terrible to balance, been there! Running Marshalls now

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Can i respectfully suggest that a modern tyre with a 60% profile will not handle anywhere nnear as well as a period 70% tyre, unless you stiffen the springs and give it adverse camber to keep the footprint flat on the floor. other wise you will be lifting the inside edge under hard cornering. these cars are not suited to modern tyres. it might be more correct to say that modern tyres are not suited to cars of  this period.

 

How do you like this picture i drew to demonstrate

handling.jpg

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On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 16:41, Dougal Cawley said:

Can i respectfully suggest that a modern tyre with a 60% profile will not handle anywhere nnear as well as a period 70% tyre, unless you stiffen the springs and give it adverse camber to keep the footprint flat on the floor. other wise you will be lifting the inside edge under hard cornering. these cars are not suited to modern tyres. it might be more correct to say that modern tyres are not suited to cars of  this period.

 

How do you like this picture i drew to demonstrate

handling.jpg

Doug, I'm inclined to agree with you on inducing more negative camber, but I would have thought that increasing the suspension stiffness will reduce body roll when cornering.  Wouldn't this then slightly negate the whole purpose of giving the car more negative camber?

However, I'm not a suspension set-up guru, so am open to opinions here.

This is my line of thought:

If we had a Vertical (Neutral Camber) position, this would provide the best contact patch, which is ideal only in a straight lineWhen cornering, the vehicle weight would shift.  The body rolls, and the tires would tilt.  Tire loading then shifts to the edge, so that the contact patch is reduced.

5a312d9795dbd_NeutralCamber.JPG.cf98468c93faaa8ec89e7bb563690a09.JPG

 

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To compensate for this, the wheels are mounted at an angle (Negative Camber), as you suggested.

Now though, in a straight line the contact patch is reduced.

However, as the body rolls and the tires tilt, the contact patch is increased, providing a greater resistance to sideward forces, so we have better grip when cornering.

Downside to this: The tire edges are loaded when in a straight line which causes wear.

 

5a312dfc37aeb_NegativeCamber.JPG.0d91b082525a92e62a4d54975e39efa2.JPG

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Darn it those pictures are  good. I'm going to nick those for next time im trying to demonstrate these points. 

 

"Doug, I'm inclined to agree with you on inducing more negative camber, but I would have thought that increasing the suspension stiffness will reduce body roll when cornering.  Wouldn't this then slightly negate the whole purpose of giving the car more negative camber?"

Ish, but you do a bit of both, to get the best results on a race track. but doing this to these cars does give all the draw backs in your second posting.  and a less comfortable ride.

1 hour ago, dt36 said:

If we had a Vertical (Neutral Camber) position, this would provide the best contact patch, which is ideal only in a straight lineWhen cornering, the vehicle weight would shift.  The body rolls, and the tires would tilt.  Tire loading then shifts to the edge, so that the contact patch is reduced.

However in doing this to get the best results you want a tyre carcass designed to compliment this kind of set up with rounded shoulders so that as the car rolls the footprint (and grip) decreases progressively. However with a more modern square shouldered tyre, (the wider and lower profile the worse it is) instead of the foot print decreasing gently it lifts up the inside of the tyre as it climbs up onto the shoulder of the tyre as the car rolls under cornering forces. (see the middle picture in my home work drawing)

Adding adverse camber and stiffening the springs is all well and good for track use. And people that would like to look like they are on the track. But actually for road use the handling and ride are not as good. Yes you may have more ultimate grip However when  it does let go it will be more sudden. But on a perfectly smooth race track all is good.

 

Modern cars do have wide tyres with low profiles, but they have  very differnt set ups that have not nothing to do with a rear wheel drive Escort that is driven  on the throttle. 

Most modern cars are front wheel drive! Yuk! they understeer! Yuk!

Modern suspension is much  more clever and complicated than in period, with things like fancy self leveling, variable settings, etc.   modern cars also have clever camber with clever tricks like shorter top wish bones, which means that on the straight you don't have much camber normally, but when the suspension is loaded up it adds adverse camber. which is all modern clever stuff that makes modern tyres work on modern cars. oh yes, have you ever looked at modern cars when they are parked up with the steering on full lock? the wheels stick out at a funny angle. that is caster. this without being a Escort expert, i don't think they will have anywhere near that amount of caster. this also makes a modern car able to benefit from fat square shouldered modern tyres.  this would make the steering horrible, but on a modern car it is overcome by modern clever powersteering.

 

In short an escort doesn't have as much ultimate grip as a modern car. but they just are more fun to drive. and correct peroid tyres that compliment the set up of the car will just make them more fun.

 

I'm not knocking fat low profile modern tyres. they will give you ultimately more grip in some circumstances, but you have to change the car to suit them. you may get better lap times. but you will have more fun and the handling will be better fitted with  the correct tyre.

 

Oh yes and the CN36 does look super cool.

 

cn36.jpg

RS 2000.jpg

RS 2000 close up rear wheel CN36 175-70R13.jpg

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