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lee 16 ghia

Pinto starter

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Hi all, hope someone can help please,

basically I fitted a high torque starter towards the end of last year as the old one was very old and slow, anyway all was good up until a couple of weeks ago and it just clicked (like a flat battery).

so I removed starter checked on the floor all fine, wired it to the car and all fine but as soon as I bolt it up it turns once maybe twice and then just clicks again. If I remove and refit it will turn over again once or twice then click again.

the engine turns over by hand fine I’ve tried to check flywheel through the hole I can’t think of anything else to try.

any ideas would be grateful thanks

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Could it be a connection problem.? The reason I ask is that both times you've taken it off and put it back it's worked then stopped working. I'm thinking that the initial install is giving a good earth but then creating an arc that is then making a bad connection after it works, if that makes sense. I would make sure that all connections are good. Other than that is it pulling up to the bell housing too tight and pushing onto the flywheel too tight. ?

Fozzy

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Hi,

ive checked and double checked the connections that’s why I tried it loose before bolting it on, It’s got an extra earth lead going to the block also, I even used jump leads from the starter body to the block and still makes no difference. 

How would I know if it’s bolting up to the bellhousing too tight? Sorry for being thick.

its as though the starter for some reason keeps jamming?

 

thanks for the reply 

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Hi mate, if you've tried it off the car and it works fine then it's something that's happening when you bolt it up. This leads me to think it may be bolting up on the piss. When it engages it misses the teeth or can't get between the teeth of the flywheel. Can you get under the car to see if it looks level. 

If you've still got the old starter, put them side to side to see if there is a difference in length. 

Fozzy

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Hi

thanks again for the reply I put them side by side before I put the new one in and there identical. 

I get what you mean now by maybe on the piss, and missing the teeth somehow. But the starter sits on the bellhouseing and gets tightened up so surely it can’t go in on the piss. I always start all bolts off 1st then go around and nip up and finally go around again and tighten.

im lost at the moment with this one

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I know you said they're identical, does that include the thicknesses of the bolt holes. To a certain degree these types of things are made to pretty tight tolerances so any slight difference in one to the other could make a difference in how it fits and ultimately how it works. Have you got an auto electrician nearby that can put it through a few tests.?

It's difficult to get a positive idea without being there and seeing what's happening, so it's just stab in the dark guesswork mate. 

Fozzy

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Cheers

yes mate they must be slightly different then.

but it’s strange how it turns over and then randomly stops, should I try a spacer in between the bell house and starter? 

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5 minutes ago, lee 16 ghia said:

Cheers

yes mate they must be slightly different then.

but it’s strange how it turns over and then randomly stops, should I try a spacer in between the bell house and starter? 

I was going to make this suggestion. Yes try a washer between the starter and bell housing. 

ATB.

Fozzy

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I’m glad you was thinking this as well, to be honest I’ve got nothing to loose. It might be next week now though, I’ve fell out with the thing today ☹️. 

I will let you know the outcome thanks for the help much appreciated as always, if you have any other brain waves let me know.

???

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43 minutes ago, lee 16 ghia said:

I’m glad you was thinking this as well, to be honest I’ve got nothing to loose. It might be next week now though, I’ve fell out with the thing today ☹️. 

I will let you know the outcome thanks for the help much appreciated as always, if you have any other brain waves let me know.

???

Haha, no problem mate. I'm like it with mine ATM. Yesterday I could have got rid, but it's not the cars fault as I love working on it. It's the size of the garage that's the problem with very little space to work on it with. Having said that, I've got the outlaws to thank as it's her garage. Not to worry though as in the next few months I'll have my own with more space.

Fozzy

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Yes mines just in single garage defo need to move for a double, trouble is then I’d have the focus parked next to it.. 

its more the cold that slows me down, I really have to sych myself up to go out this time of year. Must be my age!

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Right abit if an update, 

I used some washers today in between the starter and bellhousing and it just clicked.

so I was thinking dodgy starter, so I managed to borrow a starter I knew worked and similar thing it turned over and then went slow and started to click. So now I’m thinking possibly the nearly New battery is no good.

So I think I’ll get a new battery and leave the old starter in that I know works and see what I get. 

Fingers crossed this should solve it, if it was a dodgy battery all along I’ll kick myself.

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Just put some jump leads from another car before buying a battery.

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Hi

i tried that but it still just clicks?

its driving me mad, it’s been fine for 6 years until I put the high torque starter on??

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Have you still got the old starter available to put back on and try it. So long as you didn't change it cos it's knackered that is. At least this should eliminate any bad connections you may be getting. If that works ok, then it's looking likely your high torque one is buggered. 

Fozzy

 

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Yes mate I put it back on today, it turned over a couple of times and then like a flat battery symptom it turned over very slowly and then stopped.

Now it just clicks again, it’s sounds like a flat battery but it’s nealry new, it charges and hols good charge. even when I use another car for a jump it still clicks. 

God knows

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19 minutes ago, lee 16 ghia said:

Yes mate I put it back on today, it turned over a couple of times and then like a flat battery symptom it turned over very slowly and then stopped.

Now it just clicks again, it’s sounds like a flat battery but it’s nealry new, it charges and hols good charge. even when I use another car for a jump it still clicks. 

God knows

It's got to be something to do with the power getting from your battery to the starter, even with a jump from another car.  It's like it's leaking down through the body of the car and losing power before it gets to the starter somehow. I'm no auto electrician so it's just guesswork now.

fozzy

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I just bought a nice new battery for similar reasons as yours. The existing battery appeared ok and charged ok but could not deliver sufficient power to get it started. I did renew earth leads and cleaned all connections. Odd because the car had been running ok.

I bought a big f**k off battery with 930 cca and job done. Cost me 70 bucks Halfords do them for 120.

 

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Try a DC current clamp on the battery positive cable and a standard multi meter connected across the battery at the same time. 

Disconnect the coil, so the engine won't start. 

The voltage should remain at or above specifications when turning over. Don't crank for more than about 15secs.

High current draw with a low cranking speed can be  a faulty starter or at worst an engine issue.

Low cranking speed with a low current draw can be a high resistance in the starter circuit.

I had a very high current draw on mine and a very lazy cranking speed. I soldered new brushes in and put new earth's on, but eventually ended up putting a new starter on. 

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Right, double check the earth wires from battery, one goes to front of engine below distributor, make sure clean and tight ,check the thin earth wire to body same again clean and tight

Main thick red wire to starter, thin red wire ,is this connected to battery this feeds the ignition electrics,

Can only be something like poor connection

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Thanks for the reply’s,

my battery is in the boot I run a thick power cable to a cut off switch and then straight down to the starter (it’s been like that for 6 years no probs), the battery is earthed in the boot. 

My starter is earthed to the block and another one to the cross member (again like this for years).

the battery drops to 12.2v from 12.6v whisky cranking and is the same at the starter end, a jump start makes no difference, but I surpose a battery can hold plenty of charge but have no balls to cranks still. So I’m going to try the above suggestion and investigate the battery more I’m thinking this could be my problem.

The battery tray I’ve got currently can only fit a 500cca battery so I’m thinking if I’m buying a new battery may aswell put a bigger one in with a new tray.

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I would still check the connections where all Fit, have you checked to make sure cut off switch not faulty,

Other thing have you had a spanner on front crank pulley make sure engine not locked

 

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Would have thought even a low battery and jumps leads would crank if only slowly

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