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Duncanoakes

More power required

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My cars a 2.0 pinto running twin 45 carbs and four speed gear box- but it’s not quick 

i bought this car after watching rally drivers slide these cars gracefully around as a child and always wanted to recreate that. 

Ineant to keep the pinto so the car stays age correct as I would like to do some light competition events and the car must be age correct

what would I have to pay for someone to build me an engine that’s going to put a big smile on my face  

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That is such an open ended question really, it depends on how far you want to go. To pay a pro to build an engine I would say depending on spec anywhere between 4-7k

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Thanks. And what sort of power would that give?  200bhp?

and if I went the other way and put something like a zetec or Vauxhall red top?  I imagine a lot more power for a lot less money

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im slowly putting a pinto together to try and achieve 190-200 bhp. even with me doing as much of the work as possible, the price of a propper head, forged pistons, twin 48s cam kit, machining work, i'll still have 4 grand in it. if i wasnt intent on keeping a pinto between the wings i'd go ST170 engine, about 400 quid. spend a grand and get over 200bup.

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200bhp on a pinto your at the top end of the scale, your into good head/cam bottom end to keep it all together and wouldn't be a town car! Zetecs you can get 200 out of but not cheap to retro fit with all the bits required. Same as red top engine if you can find a good used one, inlet and exhaust manifolds/ bellhousing sump stand alone ecu. Which ever way you go it ain't going to be cheap.

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27 minutes ago, Duncanoakes said:

My cars a 2.0 pinto running twin 45 carbs and four speed gear box- but it’s not quick 

i bought this car after watching rally drivers slide these cars gracefully around as a child and always wanted to recreate that. 

Ineant to keep the pinto so the car stays age correct as I would like to do some light competition events and the car must be age correct

what would I have to pay for someone to build me an engine that’s going to put a big smile on my face  

what other work is done on the engine? what carbs are they? any head work or cam kit in it? my 2.0 pinto with just a full janspeed and 4 branch and not a great deal else went like fook

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That’s half the problem I don’t really know

the exhaust certainly isn’t standard and the engine is said to have been built to go in a kit car. Did 1000 miles before it was removed and put in my car. It has a Burton rocker cover but don’t they all......god knows what’s inside it. 

 

the bloke I bought the car from didn’t really know what he was selling. He bought it on a whim and put it in his garage having only driven it a handful of times 

 

it might just  really benefit from a set up of the carbs

its like all these things. I’m also no expert i drive a 330bhp diesel 1 year old bmw day to day with an eight speed auto gear box that goes like stink so back to back the escort just feels slow and with the four speed box it runs out of legs and being an old thing I’m a little frightened to totally thrash it. Gear box is terrible. Whilst it works fine first gear seems pointless although I read that this is a common complaint with standard gearing 

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Mines had a bit of head work cam kit full janspeed and 4 branch manifold and turns out 152 bhp and that’s quick anough for the old girl 

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3 minutes ago, colr6 said:

200bhp on a pinto your at the top end of the scale, your into good head/cam bottom end to keep it all together and wouldn't be a town car! Zetecs you can get 200 out of but not cheap to retro fit with all the bits required. Same as red top engine if you can find a good used one, inlet and exhaust manifolds/ bellhousing sump stand alone ecu. Which ever way you go it ain't going to be cheap.

a lot cheaper putting st170 in the getting good power from a pinto. my mates just put an st17o in his mk2, think he's looking at putting an rx7 box in as theyre cheap and stronger than a type 9. my other mate has a mk5 rs2000 i4 engine in his with twin weber 45s, 4 branch and a weber alpha management system. his was rolling roaded at just under 190bhp. no other mods. type 9 5 speed. english axle, and after going ford fair in it a few times with him i can vouch that it go's really well, drives round town perfect, pulls 125 on private roads. and never lets him down.

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2 minutes ago, Duncanoakes said:

That’s half the problem I don’t really know

the exhaust certainly isn’t standard and the engine is said to have been built to go in a kit car. Did 1000 miles before it was removed and put in my car. It has a Burton rocker cover but don’t they all......god knows what’s inside it. 

 

the bloke I bought the car from didn’t really know what he was selling. He bought it on a whim and put it in his garage having only driven it a handful of times 

 

it might just  really benefit from a set up of the carbs

its like all these things. I’m also no expert i drive a 330bhp diesel 1 year old bmw day to day with an eight speed auto gear box that goes like stink so back to back the escort just feels slow and with the four speed box it runs out of legs and being an old thing I’m a little frightened to totally thrash it. Gear box is terrible. Whilst it works fine first gear seems pointless although I read that this is a common complaint with standard gearing 

thats the problem. after driving a modern mapped up diesel with tons of torque its gonna feel slow. as your in yorkshire you could give john paul a try at jp autotechnics near dinnington. he sorted my mates webers and they were never touched again for 2yrs. he has a rolling road and loves tinkering with webers.

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3 minutes ago, Duncanoakes said:

Maybe I just need to respect it as a classic. And let people admire it rather than try and make it brutally fast

they do go well! if set up correct. mine was +50 over bore, 1.5mm skimmed of the head, ported manifold, full janspeed and standard twin choke weber. to be honest it was plenty quick enough. would do about 115 on the 4 speed, but did about 60 in 1st and didnt take long to get there. and would go sideways in 3rd in the dry.

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The problem is in your statement, you can't compare an old escort in any way shape or form to a modern powerhouse. You get used to them screaming their tits off,bad gears no brakes and pointing in the direction there not supposed to! That on OSF in a nutshell....fun fun fun!!

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I’ll get the thing out from under a dust sheet and out of storage in the next few weeks and start tinkering. 

Get it set up properly as a starting point and see where we go from there . Want to start from a position where I am happy to give it some grief without fear of blowing it up, so I’ll give everything a going over, then onto the rolling road and see what happens from there 

watched a few mk2 videos tonight on YouTube and reminded me why I love it so much. Nothing better than seeing a mk2 being driven hard on a rally stage. Just awesome

thanks all for your input and advice and I’ll keep you posted once it’s out from under the dust sheet 

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2 minutes ago, Duncanoakes said:

I’ll get the thing out from under a dust sheet and out of storage in the next few weeks and start tinkering. 

Get it set up properly as a starting point and see where we go from there . Want to start from a position where I am happy to give it some grief without fear of blowing it up, so I’ll give everything a going over, then onto the rolling road and see what happens from there 

watched a few mk2 videos tonight on YouTube and reminded me why I love it so much. Nothing better than seeing a mk2 being driven hard on a rally stage. Just awesome

thanks all for your input and advice and I’ll keep you posted once it’s out from under the dust sheet 

well im in doncaster so gis a shout if you want me to have a quick look around it. but if you want a proper pinto ring jeff harris.  really though when set up right they go really well. mine reved to 7.5k

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You should be able to get reasonable results if the bottom end is ok using and injection head good mild cam with the 45s and a decent exhaust and someone to set the carbs up. Should produce enough power to have fun with without going OTT. Long first in the box will make the ratios better pending the diff ratio 4-1/4-44 for mostly town short haul use or go for 3-7/3-9 for a bit more top end.

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I spent around £750 on a bottom end, taking it to a 2.1. All the money was in the parts, machine work and sundries. Labour was my own. 

EFI head came with my old engine and cost me about £1,100 for  Vulcan Stage 1 and cam kit. 

Gearbox is a Type 9, which I've just rebuilt with a longer first gear and uprated bearings. Probably about £500 with all the bits and powder coating. 

No idea what it kicks out yet, but like others say, it won't come near my Astra GTC Diesel with a Stage 1 map. 203bhp for £140 and about 45 minutes work. 

Next on the cards is to take my old 205 block to a 2.2, but that's way off yet, as I'm quietly collecting the parts so my Missus doesn't notice... 

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1 hour ago, RWL81P said:

im slowly putting a pinto together to try and achieve 190-200 bhp. even with me doing as much of the work as possible, the price of a propper head, forged pistons, twin 48s cam kit, machining work, i'll still have 4 grand in it. if i wasnt intent on keeping a pinto between the wings i'd go ST170 engine, about 400 quid. spend a grand and get over 200bup.

How much did you pay for those Kobelnscmidt pistons you had a while back.  Were they 94mm? 

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12 hours ago, dt36 said:

How much did you pay for those Kobelnscmidt pistons you had a while back.  Were they 94mm? 

without finding the receipt out i cant remember off the top of my head had them in the cupboard in the house for about 10yr. yeah theyre 94mm still got them for sale. new in box.  my bottom end ive a 202 and a 205 block to choose from. accralite pistons, £600, cossie rods, £150, machining piston crowns will be another £100, flywheel lightened £50, rebore and balance bottom end will be about £300. big end, mains, little ends, thrust bearings about £250, oil pump £100, arp bolts and victor rienz gaskets, another £150. and thats without the block, polishing the rods and crank, and assembley. then theres the top end. full race HPE head, cost me a grand secondhand, about £1700 new. twin weber 48s, with linkages and port matched and taperd £650, again new over a grand, tony law manifold £250. nearyl £500 new. then theres all the various parts, nuts bolts gaskets, clutch. they arnt cheap to build properly but you can build them cheaply to get good results!

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Well, just to add to your dilemma, I've got a spare set of 1.6 Diesel Conrods here. As you haven't worked your Crank yet, this gives you the option of going 2.2. :-)

How safe do you reckon a 205 block would be on 94mm pistons if not being bollucked constantly? I'm hearing different schools of thought, with some  saying a 205 will be fine, while others say it's too far and that you need a 200 block. 

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Safe limit for a 205 block would be 93mm, be prepared to scrap a few at 94mm. You should be able to get a thickness test done on 94mm block. The last thing you want is it nipping up and destroying the rest of it. It's like doing 93 on an old 2.0 block, seen a few with hot spots on the bores. As to a 200 block don't know, not had the privy of one.

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5 hours ago, dt36 said:

Well, just to add to your dilemma, I've got a spare set of 1.6 Diesel Conrods here. As you haven't worked your Crank yet, this gives you the option of going 2.2. :-)

How safe do you reckon a 205 block would be on 94mm pistons if not being bollucked constantly? I'm hearing different schools of thought, with some  saying a 205 will be fine, while others say it's too far and that you need a 200 block. 

as much as id like to have a 2.2. for the price and complications with using 1.6d rods, then an unground 2.0 crank, both are hard to find although between us weve got them. then youve gotta try and find someone capable of offset grinding and the price. think it would be safer using a farndon crank with yb rods and make 2.3 or 2.4. its the same thing with 94mm pistons. it can be done on a 205 block if done correctly same 93mm on a non 205 block. 200 blocks do have thicker walls, i do have a 202 block which is heavier and thicker on the outside of the block, i would imagine the walls are thicker too but not had it in bits yet. i know ron harris built a pinto with 94mm and vulcan have also, i believe on 205 blocks.

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