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Rally Pack 2000

Using Vernier Pulley with Standard Pinto Camshaft.

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Having tidied up the Engine bay and fitting newly ceramic coated manifolds and powder coating the cam cover and brake tower etc, the old original grey cam pulley  (with various paint oversprays) from 1979 is looking a bit drab and untidy. Back in the 80s when I had intentions of modifying this car I purchased a kent steel vernier pulley for it. Since I have it just sitting there I though why not fit that even though the camshaft is just standard. The load spreading washers match the ones on the struts tops etc so it would even blend in. Its just effectively a shiny bit to replace the original. But something is niggling at that the back of my mind that I might be forgetting something important. Is there any operational issues using a vernier pulley on a standard engine that I possibly havent considered? There is this voice in my head that is nagging me not to do this for some inexplicable reason?

KentVernier.thumb.jpg.38c01b85d7aa5c0e4e4c4666b7058875.jpg

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None whatsoever, Apart from you will a dial gauge and a protractor to set it up correctly.

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As Col says, no issues and fairly straightforward. 

I think I've got some timing discs on my PC in work I made last year. If you give me the details of your cam at full lift on number 1, I can probably customise  it for you. These are fairly good to use as they can be printed out to different sizes for different size Pulleys. I'll mail it you then for printing. CDs are good for sticking or laser burning to. 

I was thinking about doing one for a crank pulley to get printed as a sticker. Then either clear lacquer it, or clear hydro dip. 

Oddly enough, I did a set of Kent Cams yesterday on a Zetec for a lad and only took one timing disc with me. Could have done with another, as cam dwell was surprisingly large on both cams. 

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I had similar reservations, so I set my vernier pulley at 0˚ and fitted it, then had my rolling road tuner set it up - so I did most of the work he just did the clever bit.

 

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14 minutes ago, Danish said:

I had similar reservations, so I set my vernier pulley at 0˚ and fitted it, then had my rolling road tuner set it up - so I did most of the work he just did the clever bit.

 

Im glad I not the only one I was thinking I was being overly paranoid. May have something to do with everything going a*se up with the car the past few weeks. Its starting to get at me.

The old Kent Steel Vernier doesn't have any markings on it to really set it at anything LOL. I was just going to make sure the holes on the front section and the backing perfectly aligned for visual reasons and place the pulley on the key at the exact same place the key is on the old pulley.

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Sad to say my nice Kent Steel pulley was ruined by a mechanic that had no idea what to do with it. Traditionally when we get our equivalent of an MOT done I get a few odd jobs done at the same time generally those that require a hoist.  But I was keen to get the pulley on and since it wouldn't need adjusting on a standard cam and I asked the mechanic to put the pulley on while he had the car save me having to do it. I thought It was a simply enough job. Got the car back without the pulley fitted and them saying the couldn't get it to fit. The two halves which perfectly machined fit together no longer do and can barely get them apart only if you prise them. The seem to have attempted to also adjust it by simply digging a screwdriver in the side and hitting it with a hammer damaging the rim. I have saved that for 25 years waiting to put it on and now gone for nothing. Totally Disappointed and Gutted!

PulleyDamage.jpg.ddde7ebf6b4d16e0477e9abe7145e02f.jpg

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If you can get them to admit to the damage, it might be saved with a very light skim on a lathe. Get them to pay. 

They might even clean up with a sheet of fine glasspaper on a flat surface. 

I fitted a set on a Zetec about 2 weeks ago and also have  verniers on my own engines. What I normally do is give them a tap against a small block of wood in the centre before fitting to split them. I then put a small amount of chain spray or similar thin spray oil between the mating faces. This way, they then rotate  freely with no tight spots. 

When they are fitted and timed up to full lift on number 1 cylinder, I then add a small amount of Loctite to at least 2 of the adjustment screws when nipping them up. 

Gutting that they have caused this damage, not knowing how to adjust them properly. 

Do you think it can be saved or you just going to bin it now? 

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Is the backing plates still OK, as shown on your original first picture? 

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1 minute ago, dt36 said:

If you can get them to admit to the damage, it might be saved with a very light skim on a lathe. Get them to pay. 

They might even clean up with a sheet of fine glasspaper on a flat surface. 

I fitted a set on a Zetec about 2 weeks ago and also have  verniers on my own engines. What I normally do is give them a tap against a small block of wood in the centre before fitting to split them. I then put a small amount of chain spray or similar thin spray oil between the mating faces. This way, they then rotate  freely with no tight spots. 

When they are fitted and timed up to full lift on number 1 cylinder, I then add a small amount of Loctite to at least 2 of the adjustment screws when nipping them up. 

Gutting that they have caused this damage, not knowing how to adjust them properly. 

Do you think it can be saved or you just going to bin it now? 

I had initially thought about skimming the rim to clean it up but there seems to be something else damaged in that the two halves of the pulley no long glide together. Its jams and you have to prise it apart just to get it into two halves. I think the bin is the only use for it now. How do you bend a whole steel pulley out of shape?!

The annoying part is that you cant get silver replacements. All the alloy ones are blue or red. I need it to be silver having added other polished silver alloy things to the front. Burtons still offer a Kent steel one but it seems to be matt black. But that seems like the only reasonable replacement I have seen so far. Its the fact I have to spend a hundred quid on a replacement makes it even more annoying. No chance of getting reimbursed either.

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3 minutes ago, dt36 said:

Is the backing plates still OK, as shown on your original first picture? 

Yes the back half of the pulley that has an integral backing plate seems ok but it could be its centre that been bent and why the two halves dont go together properly anymore.

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Butchers! Whatever possessed them to take it apart - surely it was a case of taking one pulley off and putting a different one on? I realise the key sometimes makes things tight but will usually shift ok with a puller! I guess it was but instead of cleaning up the key and the slot ie. fettle - they just decided to apply the heavy adjustment stick to fit it and then to bash it off again! Not sure i'd be using their services again especially if the don't reimburse you!

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Not sounding too good. 

I popped mine apart and rubbed the surface with Scotchbrite. I then used an Etch Primer, Base Coat and then Clear Lacquer to get the colour I wanted. 

There a a firm near me that does anodising, but I've not contacted them for any prices yet. Oddly enough, I dropped a load of cast iron garden furniture off yesterday to the powder coaters to get it done in grey. I also added a Crank Pulley and Auxillary Pulley in  with them to see how they come out. 

I'm going to get a drawing I've done printed to a sticker to mount to a crank pulley, then lacquer over it as a bit of a trial to see how it comes out. 

The below pics are of the last set of pulleys I etched and painted. Really fancy trying anodising though. 

IMG_20171223_102241147.jpg

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8 minutes ago, katana said:

Butchers! Whatever possessed them to take it apart - surely it was a case of taking one pulley off and putting a different one on? I realise the key sometimes makes things tight but will usually shift ok with a puller! I guess it was but instead of cleaning up the key and the slot ie. fettle - they just decided to apply the heavy adjustment stick to fit it and then to bash it off again! Not sure i'd be using their services again especially if the don't reimburse you!

I thought it was a simply as one off new one on as well. I even started this thread to be sure I wasn't overlooking anything. I just cant see how or why they damaged it so the two haves get stuck together now.

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I think like Katana has said, they've also tried to beat it back off. This has probably bent the back plate, giving it a high spot. 

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12 minutes ago, dt36 said:

I think like Katana has said, they've also tried to beat it back off. This has probably bent the back plate, giving it a high spot. 

There strangely doesn't appear to be any damage at the back like there was an impact or anything. Only on the front which is really weird. The two halves wont go back together without them seizing part way though. I will take it to a machinist to see if they can clean it up but best to start looking for an alternative I think. Not many seem to be steel though or have steel teeth let alone silver.

PulleyDamage2.jpg.9eebbb7437bac7448c13fd75cb466428.jpg

PulleyDamage1.jpg.b0182907954ad235ca5aa2a9b1183ab0.jpg

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They don't look too bad when you see them like that. 

Got to be cheaper to get them cleaned up, rather than buying new plus postage. 

Might be that all is not lost... 

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8 minutes ago, dt36 said:

They don't look too bad when you see them like that. 

Got to be cheaper to get them cleaned up, rather than buying new plus postage. 

Might be that all is not lost... 

You would think so just to look at them but you would never guess they no longer go back together. I tried honing the centre with a fine grade but it had no effect. I will look into getting it repaired but if anyone has sourced a nice pulley (preferably silver) please post some images!

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Only needs a couple of thou' and it'll interference lock. Given the tolerances, a light skim may retrieve the piece or at worst have a bronze sleeve added - it's not like its a wearing surface - just needs a good sliding fit ...... got to be cheaper than purchasing and refinishing another pulley set?

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3 hours ago, dt36 said:

Have a look at this video:

https://www.aquagraphix.co.uk/spectra-chrome-advanced-spray-on-chrome-technology/

This firm is about 5 miles from where I live. 

Then Google Spectra Chrome Australia. You might be pleasantly surprised :-)

You must be a mind reader or something. Only this week I fitted the generic chrome replica gutter strips from the UK. Its awful and not even chrome and it kinks on the C Pillar of a 4 door. Its total crap. So I have been looking for alternatives. No one will fabricate some metal versions so the only option was to refurbish the originals which have discoloured. The plastic chromers wont do it because their booth is only 1m square. So I need a plastic paint that can simulate chrome. Literally these past few days and then you post that! LOL. Its our equivalent of your Ford Fair here tomorrow and how this rush to put the pulley and so on came about, hoping I could take the car there. I need more of a brushed silver alloy look for the pulley but that stuff should solve a problem that has been frustrating me for ages now. Good job!!!

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Has anyone had much experience with the Turbosport pulleys? They look pretty good and have a built in scale. I just remember reading a few years back that there were issues with the alloy teeth being chewed out?

TurbosportPulley.jpg.ff9982a2e74cf6f8f73e1a821e7aa2af.jpg

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Quality of the pulley might be ok, but from first hand experience, their customer service is appalling. 

I would never give this Twunt a single penny of my money again. 

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9 hours ago, dt36 said:

Quality of the pulley might be ok, but from first hand experience, their customer service is appalling. 

I would never give this Twunt a single penny of my money again. 

Yes I had heard that about the service too, just he seems to be one of the few around that also make a matching Aux Pulley and its also one of the few I like the look of. Its a one man operation I hear too so sometimes it may be difficult to be on top of all things. Im considering having a try with him and getting three pulleys in one hit, the cam, aux and crank/fanbelt. I just want to be sure if the quality is there at least. I dont want it chewing out teeth.

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34 minutes ago, Rally Pack 2000 said:

Yes I had heard that about the service too, just he seems to be one of the few around that also make a matching Aux Pulley and its also one of the few I like the look of. Its a one man operation I hear too so sometimes it may be difficult to be on top of all things. Im considering having a try with him and getting three pulleys in one hit, the cam, aux and crank/fanbelt. I just want to be sure if the quality is there at least. I dont want it chewing out teeth.

I have a crank pulley and Aux Pulley from him. 

Crank pulley had to be reamed to get it to fit. It also needed a fair bit of balancing too. 

Aux Pulley now seems decent, but the issue I had with that and the customer service was that he sent me a YB pulley 3 times in a row. No apology and I had to pay each time to return the wrong pulley before he would even consider sending me the wrong one out again. I asked for a full refund and made it clear that I no longer wanted a pulley from him. He then sent me the correct pulley out. 

The way he spoke to me on the phone was out of order and I'm only glad I never had to speak with him face to face, as my temper had risen hotter than Demi Lovato's spoon. 

IMG_20180223_115719064.jpg

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I've had 4 turbosport items, 3 OK one shit. Not had to deal with direct so can't comment on customer service. The problem one was a lower crank pulley for the XE, the drilled holes slightly out of line. But that was easily cured.

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