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troppo

help identifying gearbox

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G`day all

i`m a little confused about my gearbox. 1 inch shaft, 23 splines but the hole  in the webbing in the extension housing is in a different place to some of the ive seen online. I was thinking  it should be a Type E "Rocket" box.

 I`ve left it sit for far too long and will throw a bearing kit  in it while i`m doing the body. I have spent the  last week or so reading through all the posts on here and have l learned a hell of a lot i didnt even realise i didnt know.

Cheers

Troppo

 

P.S.

Is there a how to on these boxes that i might have missed?

 

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Its a Type E gearbox. While Ford Australia made their own unique extension housings for type E gearboxes for locally built Escorts so the gear lever is in a conventional position whereas in the UK they just used the Cortina Extension housing with the gear lever further back in their RS models. This allowed the Type E to be used in all later Australian Escorts regardless of engine type. That said, the extension housing you have pictured is not the Escort type its a Cortina but still could be a locally produced version made for 2Lt Cortinas. It seems to have less reinforcement ridges as seen on some later extension housings so my guess is that its from an early Mk3 2Lt Cortina. If you want to fit that gearbox into an Escort you will need to change the extension housing. In the UK they would modify the transmission tunnel and move the gear lever hole further back but this can get messy with Australian Escort shells as they have extra strengthening ridges that have to be cut away to do that, so its much much easier and neater just to acquire an Australian Escort Extension housing.

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If it prove a problem altering the car, you could always cut the tail housing top and selector shaft to reduce its length. A very common thing over here when fitted in the BL range of cars.

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7 minutes ago, colr6 said:

If it prove a problem altering the car, you could always cut the tail housing top and selector shaft to reduce its length. A very common thing over here when fitted in the BL range of cars.

That's effectively what Ford Australia did when they made their own Escort extension housing for the Type E

ExtensionHousing.jpg.0cae4d91a52523e76538820a1ba35f40.jpg

Any Escort speciality wrecker in Adelaide or Melbourne should be able to supply one. They seem to survive longer than the gearboxes with minimal wear so it shouldn't be too hard to acquire one locally.

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That looks somewhat neater than the ones over here which are chopped and welded back up.

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Found a bit of a rough one, but the end result is the same. Got a pic of shortened tailshaft for the fitment into a scimitar.

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That's a very nice conversion and neater welding than I have seen on some conversions. Some are really rough and don't even look straight. The Australian housings are only good for Type E 4 speeds though with the threaded gear levers. If you want to do a Type 9 like those pictured above the conversion is the only way to go. Seeing how neat that one is, that's the way I would go if you needed a 5 speed rather than cutting out the transmission tunnel.

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Thanks for all the help guys. so its a type E box then.

http://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guides/tuning-guide-pages/ford-type-e-gearbox-guide.html

The box was in the car when i bought it so the hole in the tunnel fits the extension housing. One thing that doesnt fit is the size of the tunnel, the gearbox wont go back far enough to be taken off the engine (fouls all round with the tunnel) so its going to need a larger tunnel. Thats the easy part. i just needed to know if it was worth keeping the box or not.

Cheers

Troppo

 

P.S

Dedicated escort/cortina wreckers are few and far between down here. The nearest one to me is seven hours  drive away. Dedicated ford wreckers are close but none that i`ve rung have any escort parts

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Might be worth a bit more expense while your in the box to consider upgrading 1st gear to a better ratio. Talk to the likes of BGH for the upgrade.

just a quick note if I remember correctly, if fitted with the RS alloy bellhousing it will come out with the engine in with no problems...........Jesus just a few suggestions and I've spent a few hundred bucks for you!!....and you only wanted to know what box it was!!...lol

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lol colr6, no worries aout spending money, i`m not allowed near a car parts place unless accompanied by SWMBO. i think its safer right now to leave the gears alone, got a it of play in the front bearing so figured id do that and throw a gasket at it while i`m there.

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Slight play in the input shaft is quite normal, unless it's noisy or pissing oil out you could leave alone.

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One more question guys, does anyone know the measurements of the aftermarket large tunnel?

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17 minutes ago, troppo said:

Thanks for all the help guys. so its a type E box then.

http://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guides/tuning-guide-pages/ford-type-e-gearbox-guide.html

The box was in the car when i bought it so the hole in the tunnel fits the extension housing. One thing that doesnt fit is the size of the tunnel, the gearbox wont go back far enough to be taken off the engine (fouls all round with the tunnel) so its going to need a larger tunnel. Thats the easy part. i just needed to know if it was worth keeping the box or not.

Cheers

Troppo

Well its definitely a Type E as you can see you bolt hole ridges where the Bell Housing bolts to the gearbox. Earlier Mk1 gearboxes have an integral bell housing. The extension housing is definitely different to the Australian Escort one that I have pictured above. It has 25 splines and a 27.5mm diameter output shaft. There was a narrow window of gearboxes with a smaller output shaft for cars made in late 75 to 76 which was beefed up when the 2lt Engine was added to the range. I'm surprised someone would modify the tunnel to fit a Cortina gearbox extension housing though when the correct Escort ones were so readily available. If you could measure the extension housing from the bell-housing to the rear tip of the housing and possibly also to the centre of the gear stick hole I should be able to tell if its actually a Cortina one or shortened Escort one with a smaller output shaft if your interested to know. Some large image files of the housing and gearbox would be great if you wanted us to take a closer look. (Its hard to see much detail in the tiny images provided)

What year model is the car and what engine did it have originally and now?

Type Es aren't really all that valuable these days as most prefer to convert to the 5 speed type 9. If you are going to enlarge the transmission tunnel you may consider doing that instead of rebuilding the Type E.

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OK

       Well  i`ve  been doing some research and found some interesting stuff. This page  is a good one and there are plenty of good pages linked on it

https://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/ford_escort_production_identification.

  Rallypack2000, i cant get pics for a day or so (did my back in this morning) but the id plates (what i could read of them) gave me the following info

 

Model...1171, 2ltr 2door

Build...08/78

Engine... J, 2ltr hi compression

Trans...v,  4 speed

Trim...Black

Paint... M, yellow blaze

 

So i was going to go with a rothmans livery but maybe now i might look into Blaze Yellow instead.

As for the gearbox, siera`s dont happen down here but i have been offered a celica box, problem is the adapter kit is $400 without clutch or pressure plate so i think i will stick with the 4 speed for now

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If its a 78 2lt model then its definitely had the extension housing replaced probably the gearbox went at some stage and it been changed for a Cortina one.

You would be surprised how many Type 9s are around, you just have to be patient and you will see them pop up from time to time even on Ebay as do Type Es which are pretty common in Australia you just have to wait for something to come up close to home if you cant have it shipped. Adelaide is often the centre of local Escort engineering and modification specialists so its actually there I often see them for sale as well as other imported Escort parts or performance and rally parts.

Are they still pushing the whole Celica 5 speed box thing? That was the box many would try to fit a quarter of a century ago as it was quite strong but the gear shift quality was terrible and the gear lever were these horrible steel bars practically. Leave that for the Mazda rotary boys! LOL Mind you that's not a bad price for that conversion all things considered. I personally would never fit one though. It depends on your power requirements really. The problem with Type Es and Type 9s is the low first gear. Col made reference to a firm BGH Geartech who make replacements to raise the first gear.

Definitely keep the Yellow Blaze. Great Colour for a Mk2. They always look terrific in yellows and oranges so if yours was that colour originally its definitely a keeper. Is this car a restoration project or a runner that you just doing a few changes too?

No hurry on extra photos, just might be handy if you can.

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7 hours ago, Rally Pack 2000 said:

If its a 78 2lt model then its definitely had the extension housing replaced probably the gearbox went at some stage and it been changed for a Cortina one.

You would be surprised how many Type 9s are around, you just have to be patient and you will see them pop up from time to time even on Ebay as do Type Es which are pretty common in Australia you just have to wait for something to come up close to home if you cant have it shipped. Adelaide is often the centre of local Escort engineering and modification specialists so its actually there I often see them for sale as well as other imported Escort parts or performance and rally parts.

Are they still pushing the whole Celica 5 speed box thing? That was the box many would try to fit a quarter of a century ago as it was quite strong but the gear shift quality was terrible and the gear lever were these horrible steel bars practically. Leave that for the Mazda rotary boys! LOL Mind you that's not a bad price for that conversion all things considered. I personally would never fit one though. It depends on your power requirements really. The problem with Type Es and Type 9s is the low first gear. Col made reference to a firm BGH Geartech who make replacements to raise the first gear.

Definitely keep the Yellow Blaze. Great Colour for a Mk2. They always look terrific in yellows and oranges so if yours was that colour originally its definitely a keeper. Is this car a restoration project or a runner that you just doing a few changes too?

No hurry on extra photos, just might be handy if you can.

 The esky is currently wearing a dark green metalic paint job, great colour but they put it on so thick that its actually shrunk and cracked. The vinyl roof is all but gone and i wont be replacing that. 

 I was originally going for the full flare and tub style but i am now thinking of keeping the clean original look with all the mechanical updates to the suspension and some work on the engine. i loved the way the old girl handled stock so i`m going to throw a few improvements into it so i can have some (legal ;) ) fun on the occaisional  track day or rally/khana cross.\

 If theres an escort mecca here in adelaide i must have missed it, looks like i have a kit of flares, alloy bobtail  and chin scoop for sale.

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Just saw this on the book of face, the only real  difference i can see is the location of the hole in the webbing

lol.png

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So going by that pic it may confirm what RP says that yours maybe a short cortina box going how the back of this box is made.

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7 hours ago, colr6 said:

So going by that pic it may confirm what RP says that yours maybe a short cortina box going how the back of this box is made.

So is there a difference between the cortina and escort bell housings? Because i have to take the engine out to change the clutch. The bell housing jams up on the trans tunnel before i can get the input shaft out of the spline in the clutch, no matter what amount of  wiggling or jiggling will get it off without removing the engine and box as a unit. I have taken enough gear boxes out of these to know how easy it is to do in other escorts. hell ive done one on my own on the side of the road (a bitch of a job for sure but still able to do it.)

 

Well thats one mystery solved engine and VIN numbers dont match. No interesting numbers on the engine casting but it does have T4 cast in a couple of spots, thats nothing i et

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15 hours ago, troppo said:

Just saw this on the book of face, the only real  difference i can see is the location of the hole in the webbing

lol.png

Sorry but that's another picture of the Australian Escort Extension housing like the one I posted above. (Which I didn't get off the net I took that photo the other day in my back shed for this thread.) It clearly shows a shorter upper gear lever rail compared to your longer Cortina one that you posted pictures of in your original post. If you look closely the faceache image has the output shaft cut off in the image which extends further than the upper gear lever rail.

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8 hours ago, troppo said:

 

So is there a difference between the cortina and escort bell housings? Because i have to take the engine out to change the clutch. The bell housing jams up on the trans tunnel before i can get the input shaft out of the spline in the clutch, no matter what amount of  wiggling or jiggling will get it off without removing the engine and box as a unit. I have taken enough gear boxes out of these to know how easy it is to do in other escorts. hell ive done one on my own on the side of the road (a bitch of a job for sure but still able to do it.)

 

Well thats one mystery solved engine and VIN numbers dont match. No interesting numbers on the engine casting but it does have T4 cast in a couple of spots, thats nothing i et

There are no differences between the Cortina and Australian 2lt Escort Bell housings of the "same" period. Early Cortina ones did appear to be more roughly cast and finished but that could be down to batch variation. It was said that the later castings were lighter but I have never seen evidence of that just something people assumed because they were better finished. Some would ensure their housing was from a late model car in case it was easier to remove but I have seen owners with the cars original Escort Bell Housings struggle with the same issues during gearbox removal. Given they are cast iron the differences in iron castings would be negligible compared to the European Alloy type that they used on their RS models. Because the type E was used on all our Mk2 Escort models a Cortina type iron bell housing was used to reduce costs. The European RS models that used the the Type E also had a different tunnel to accommodate the gear lever further back and an Alloy Bell Housing specially designed for the purpose would facilitate an easier gearbox removal over the Australian ones. The Australian Ford manual specifies having to tilt the engine backwards to facilitate gearbox removal. While it doesn't specify removal of engine mounts It was known that cars with Kent engines could be easier to tilt where the Pinto engined cars the cam cover would hit the firewall. Lifting the engine slightly out and tilt was common for 2Lt Escort owners at home. Older Escorts with Kent engines and gearboxes with integral Bell Housings had it a bit easier. Possibly its those cars you had a better time changing the clutches in. The 2lt Pinto engines cars were always known to be a pain in the **** for clutch replacement but I always remember some having an easier time of it than others suggesting a variability somewhere which could have been in the technique as much as tolerance differences. I have seen aged slightly bent cross member arms hinder the tilting process or even those with rusted out firewall lips find it easier to tilt their pintos . There are a few variables that see some have greater issues than others.

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