Fraud fords

[herb capri]

I was at a show this weekend and and it sported two Mexico escorts amongst the 6 escorts that were there

I casually looked underneath I could immediately see that one of them was not a Mexico. after chatting with the owner who proudly announced how much he paid for it I thought what a shame! he doesn't know it's a fraud, there were so many things which had been missed on the "conversion"but sure enough his logbook said Ford 1600 GT Mexico,

I just wondered how many other escorts out there have such a dubious past. and how many inflated prices they're sold for. it must really Drive the owners of the real mexico's and RS's nuts because they are bound to see it too and are bound to be annoyed that they're cherished Ford is being diluted in its rarity by these copies.

I myself though have been guilty of changing the ID of a vehicle! back in 1982 I bought a Mexico Mark 1 which was a genuine. and I looked around for a 1300 XL and changed the ID down to a 1300 XL to avoid high insurance .

strangely that also increased its value amongst my peers though I feel less guilty about that !!

Mike

[Mexican Gerbil]

Ha, I always laugh when people are that keen to look under mine. Even had the rear arches felt up a number of times to check they are rolled. 

Dont think it matters aslong as the owner is happy with what he/she owes. Problem will come when it’s time to sell and a spotter picks it to bits. 

Mine has had so many new panels I would never declare it’s an original type49 shell. I’m still missing RS bits like the engine bay loom. Clutch and bulk head was modified to use a cable on a type 9 box. Radiator is another item missing. Problem I found that a common garden Mk1 Escort part was half the price of a genuine RS model component. Just bought and fitted 1300 parts to get her on the road. It was a rally car before I got her so who knows how many shells she’s had.

 I owed a 1300L with Mex stickers but was always honest saying if was just stickers. Got fed up being asked if it was genuine, hence why my Mex isn’t stickered only badged. 

[RWL81P]

how could you tell it wasn't a genuine mex from looking underneath? maybe had a restoration and a new floor pan in it at some point?

[katana]

10 hours ago, RWL81P said:

how could you tell it wasn't a genuine mex from looking underneath? maybe had a restoration and a new floor pan in it at some point?

Ha Ha Ha - now we get to the point of 'those that know - don't tell - those that don't'. Because if they did then the fakers would also know and would produce more convincing fakes - vicious circle and quite irritating if you don't know because that perpetuates the scam!

[Mexican Gerbil]

11 hours ago, RWL81P said:

how could you tell it wasn't a genuine mex from looking underneath? maybe had a restoration and a new floor pan in it at some point?

They look under the boot floor to check for studs or the stone gaurd. Also the exhaust mount is different on the RS models. Tramp bars and brackets. The list goes on and on. Learnt a lot biulding mine. 

Those who clam there’s is mint genuine never been welded and it has then yes that is wrong but for those of us who use our cars and the rust and get damaged, parts and panels will get replaced. These cars are coming up to being 50 years old. So unless you have rapped it up in a bubble and it’s not seen a drop of moisture, it’s probably had a few new parts. 

After all an RS is just a base model with bits welded on. Ever think about that? You shouldn’t scoff at people keeping their cars going because they’ve had to replace parts. 

[Mexican Gerbil]

1 hour ago, katana said:

Ha Ha Ha - now we get to the point of 'those that know - don't tell - those that don't'. Because if they did then the fakers would also know and would produce more convincing fakes - vicious circle and quite irritating if you don't know because that perpetuates the scam!

I found AVO club very helpful in providing info on biulding mine. All i had was a shell and a box full of parts. Know idea what was different and what was needed. 

Agree that owners who pass off replicas as the genuine thing is wrong but I’m quite honest when I get asked. Mines had a completely new front end and floor. Does that make it a fake?!? Am I a scammer? 

[Xp197777]

No it doesn’t Chris because if you hadn’t of restored her then she would have gone, 

50 year old metal is rusty at the end of the day and has to be replaced  ,whilst preserving as much as possible of the original car ,that’s all you can do

james

[RWL81P]

8 hours ago, Mexican Gerbil said:

They look under the boot floor to check for studs or the stone gaurd. Also the exhaust mount is different on the RS models. Tramp bars and brackets. The list goes on and on. Learnt a lot biulding mine. 

Those who clam there’s is mint genuine never been welded and it has then yes that is wrong but for those of us who use our cars and the rust and get damaged, parts and panels will get replaced. These cars are coming up to being 50 years old. So unless you have rapped it up in a bubble and it’s not seen a drop of moisture, it’s probably had a few new parts. 

After all an RS is just a base model with bits welded on. Ever think about that? You shouldn’t scoff at people keeping their cars going because they’ve had to replace parts. 

i know this as i have a mk2 mex.  but when i bought it it had lost some of its original features due to it being bodged up previous. yes it still had the boxed in spring hangers, tramp bars, exhaust hangers and spare wheel strap etc. but it had xr3 seats, a fibreglass front spoiler and all the under wing reinforcing had been cut off and bodged with metal plate! doesnt make it a fake though if someone was to look under the front wings. although once back on the road it will have new inner wings with the correct brackets fitted back in. does that make it fake? at the end of the day it is what it is on the logbook, aslong as its not a 1.3 being passed off as a mex or twincam etc. and to be honest i dont give a shit what people think of mine once its finished, i like it and if certain people have nothing better to do than try and find fake cars then they really should spend more time in the garage or get a life. ford swapped complete shells back when they were available. bloke i know worked at ford in the 90s and reshelled a cossie as it was cheaper than repairing the crashed shell, dont make it a fake. yes there are obvious fakes out there or cars that have been reshelled. but as for looking for things that should be there, stone gaurds etc. maybe theyve just been repaired in the past and lost certain features.

[herb capri]

Of course I understand that cars need repaired and some panels replaced for non genuine ones, but on the one I was looking the  shocks angled inwards as early ones were , and quite a few parts that were obviously wrong

My intention is not to offend those who have tried their best, but some things are just blatantly wrong

?

[katana]

53 minutes ago, RWL81P said:

bloke i know worked at ford in the 90s and reshelled a cossie as it was cheaper than repairing the crashed shell, dont make it a fake. 

Ooooooh that's a minefield and you'd probably find that the DVLA would disagree with you, UNLESS it was a brand new, unbuilt and therefore un-registered chassis. Taking a registered shell and building it up with all the stuff from a write off is effectively Ringing as the Reg. number can't be transfered. Ringers used to love cutting out all of the identifying marks / stampings / plates and inserting them into a different shell to change an identity or retain one!

[Mexican Gerbil]

34 minutes ago, katana said:

Ooooooh that's a minefield and you'd probably find that the DVLA would disagree with you, UNLESS it was a brand new, unbuilt and therefore un-registered chassis. Taking a registered shell and building it up with all the stuff from a write off is effectively Ringing as the Reg. number can't be transfered. Ringers used to love cutting out all of the identifying marks / stampings / plates and inserting them into a different shell to change an identity or retain one!

What about service shells? 

[Mexican Gerbil]

1 hour ago, herb capri said:

Of course I understand that cars need repaired and some panels replaced for non genuine ones, but on the one I was looking the  shocks angled inwards as early ones were , and quite a few parts that were obviously wrong

My intention is not to offend those who have tried their best, but some things are just blatantly wrong

?

Most Mexico’s do have the early style rear shock set up. 

[meXEco]

Don't think so...Mex's started in '71 didn't they-shocks should be upright by then? Well as upright as they went lol...ie bolted to floor and not bracket.

[Mexican Gerbil]

3 minutes ago, meXEco said:

Don't think so...Mex's started in '71 didn't they-shocks should be upright by then? Well as upright as they went lol...ie bolted to floor and not bracket.

They were until late 73 then they changed. The mex was based on the RS1600 but with a crossflow 

[meXEco]

Thought they changed well earlier than that?

[RWL81P]

1 hour ago, katana said:

Ooooooh that's a minefield and you'd probably find that the DVLA would disagree with you, UNLESS it was a brand new, unbuilt and therefore un-registered chassis. Taking a registered shell and building it up with all the stuff from a write off is effectively Ringing as the Reg. number can't be transfered. Ringers used to love cutting out all of the identifying marks / stampings / plates and inserting them into a different shell to change an identity or retain one!

that was done at the ford bodyshop, so all legal

[Xp197777]

October 1973  pic enclosed 

[herb capri]

Well I never knew they had inclined shocks!!

I had 3 over the years and all had uprights 

I must admit there were other items that were missing though but I always thought mexico's had upright rear shocks.

still my point stands,and it is not a case of looking under cars at shows. the gentleman asked me to look how clean it was which is when I noticed the missing items.

As for reshelling ,back in 1980 a car came into a Ford garage near me which was an RS3100. this had had a major argument with a tree and lost !

so everything was transposed onto a GT body shell and let's face it that's what they are !

the IDS were swapped with the DVLA and back then if you owned both cars, sent in the log books and showed the engine numbers have been transferred as well you were able to do it and you had to send in the log book of the second car to be marked as scrapped.

The one thing that I was puzzled about was the logbook .

where it said former keepers actually had the former keepers of the doner shell on it ,which was a high figure on this particular car yet the original rs3100 only had two owners on it but DVLA would not change that ,the car was probably devalued by that. 

Mikà

 

[Cuili1]

On 11/09/2018 at 08:22, katana said:

Ha Ha Ha - now we get to the point of 'those that know - don't tell - those that don't'. Because if they did then the fakers would also know and would produce more convincing fakes - vicious circle and quite irritating if you don't know because that perpetuates the scam!

I find this such a shame, but completely understand what your saying also.

Back in the day I worked (as a rally mechanic) around MK1/MK2 Escorts and I've had 20 odd of them. I was very knowledgeable on a escorts as a rally car, but have never really got in to exact specs of years and models. Even if I did, my memory seems to be on a 5 minute loop these days anyway!

A few years ago, I decided I'd like to own a MK1/MK2 RS again, and got a nice one. But being a bit anal about it looking standard, I decided fix up a few bits that weren't standard looking, this quickly turned in to a full nut and bolt strip, then rebuild.

Now to my point (at last), I came on this forum because it was insistently noticeable the it's got a lot of knowledge and willing to help guys on it. As I'm keen to build my car as original looking (I'm using the words "original looking" because I've not the time or money to find/buy OM parts. So know the car will never be Original now) as I can. But it surprises me, and slightly disappoints me that there is a wealth of knowledge out there for the small detail that guys are not willing to share with some!