Group 1 / 2 / 4 etc etc

[Vista]

Ok can someone knowledgeable define the above for me. Do the terms apply to any car or just to particular rally specs on certain models of car, and what specs corresponds to them?

 

Thanks in advance for any answers given

[Dom]

I don't know either except put any one of those infront of the name of a part and it goes up a grand

[Vista]

Yeah that's my experience of it too.

 

it'd be interesting to hear a well informed answer

[faster]

Is it relative to how well you can read??

I think i was once in Group 1 at school.

[johnny_h]

There's a similar question on the AVO owners site. Awaiting an answer on this one too. Maybe there could be a detailed explanation in one of the olde skool ford mags. An idea for feature?

[tim]

the groups go back to the 70s, they were there group for holomogation(sp)

 

Group1,more standard cars,non arched,standardish engine (44idf on pinto)BVH

 

Group 2 was more racing not to sure on this

 

 

Group 4 is like the current wrc group of cars, the best of the best for rallyin 2ltr na arches 5/6link etc

 

there also group 5 like the xxxpack mk2 zakspeed cars.

 

am sure gary (retro)will know the in and out of it all better but alot of the time when u see Gp1,2 4 etc on cars or bits means fook all to do with the proper meanin of it from the 70s, hope that helps

 

here are some copies of the holomogation papers of mk2s

http://www.tech.rs2000.me.uk/articles.htm

[Fiesta Steve]

Is it relative to how well you can read??

I think i was once in Group 1 at school.

 

Your spellings not too hot either, you spelt Skool wrong

[Dom]

[Retromotorsport]

numbers in brackets are the number of cars that must have been built i 1 year.

 

 

Cat A recognised productioncars

 

Gp 1 series production Touring cars (5000)

Gp 2 Special Touring cars (1000)

Gp3 series production Grand Touring cars (1000)

Gp4 Special Grand Touring cars (500) ............... (see note)

 

Cat B experimental competition cars (anything goes class for production based cars ie not racecars)

 

Gp 5 prototype cars ( no minimum)

 

Cat C racing cars

 

Gp7 two seater racing cars ... Can Am , iInter Series etc

Gp8 Formula racing cars .. Formula 1,2,3

Gp9 Formula Libre racing cars , all other single seaters .. (anything goes class for single seaters)

 

Note on Gp4 ... everyone assumes the Gp4 when used in Escorts terms means a rally car, it means a set of regulations , not type of car, a GP4 racecar Escort is the same as the rally car in mods, just subtle differences to locations of some parts.

 

Retro Al,s car with a BDA/Pinto or X-Flow in it would be a Gp4 car .. the turbo makes it Gp5 . But you wouldnt take it out to the forrests.

 

Hope that helps, allthough all the rules changed after the 70's and is now a bigger minefield to get round.

 

( dont ask me what happened to Gp6 .. as far as i'm aware it was merged with Gp5. The most famus Gp6 Ecort was the TC shell that was fitted with the V6 essex and massive front headlamps and ran once on the Monte I think.)

[Vista]

Interesting, these are the answers posted on another site

 

I may be completely wrong here, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I am but I didn't think there is such a thing as a Gp4 Mk1 Escort!

The works Rally cars were Gp2 and race cars Gp5, The 'showroom' class was Gp1.

 

Gp4 seems to be a term people have pinched from the Mk2s.

 

My experience of looking at 'proper Gp4 Mk1s' usually means they've got some rally bits on them!

 

"Full House Rally Mk1's" as we shall call them ran in Group 2 when Ford ran them up until the end of 1974. Of course back in the early 70's Gp2 was to a Mk1 what Gp4 would later be to a Mk2.

 

Now things are then complicated by the fact that the FIA changed the groupings etc at the start of 75 just as Ford were preparing to start running Mk2's. Basically a Gp4 Mk2 had nearly all the same mods as the old Gp2 Mk1. So Ford never ran or built a Gp4 Mk1 only Mk2's.

 

But then things are further confused by the fact that privateers ran ex-works Mk1's in 75, 76 etc and while these used to run in Gp2, from 75 on they had to run in Gp4 so therefore you did have Gp4 Mk1's. And any new "works style" cars that were built after the start of 75 also would run in Gp4.

 

It's this FIA rule change in 74/75 that confuses a lot of people who aren't old enough to have been running full house rally cars at the time

 

So what should a Gp4 car have, well 2.0 BDA, 5 speed ZF, Floating Atlas (fully or semi depending on age), 5-linked back axle (short or long depending on age), Disc Brakes all round - AP 4 pots at the front with 10 1/2" discs, twin rear calipers, etc, etc, etc, these are just a few of the main bits because the list is quite long.

 

Between the three of these answers I deduce that there's no set make up for a group 1/2/4 escort and anyone selling one making lots of noises about prepared to group specification is to be mistrusted? Perhaps mistrusted is too strong a word, but I'm sure you understand my meaning

[Retromotorsport]

Easiest way of sorting out the real and the trash is..........

 

Mk1's ..if you want to compete in Hysterical (historic ) Rallying then it must be to the old Spec... ie short links, brace bar infront of the struts a 6 point tubb mounted cage, slipper springs ... and so on.

 

Mk2's ... basicly in historically correct form your allowed an Atlas.. dosnt matter what spec it is ... 6 links (long) and a 14 point cage or weld in (allthough some regs and rallys ban the weld ins) Engines must be from the original car. So BDA's are in but Xe's are out

 

As you can see ... the guy above mentions that " So what should a Gp4 car have, well 2.0 BDA, 5 speed ZF, Floating Atlas "

 

NO... it can have them, but it dosnt have to have a fully floating Atlas.. or a ZF.. it can have a normal Atlas and A 4 speed Rocket box..

But if its linked up its in Gp4 .. see what i'm saying?

 

Also the " showroom class" .. you can have 500 Gp4 cars in a showroom, (car park for the RS500)... showroom is misleading , and was coined by the commentators saying " and this is just like the car you can by in the showroom" Another £25 and a packet woodbines from Ford /Lancia/ Fiat or whoevers cars the commentator was talking about.

 

I still think the funniest thing i see is the rally car lookalike with standard suspension and 2'0L Pinto described as a GP4 car.

 

Oh and by the way.. that info i gave above was from the 1973 RS catalogue... hence Gp4 mk1's .. at the early stage they could only prove 500 cars where built.. most being privaters