Toby Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Posted February 20, 2008 So what did Mick Mk1 Make then Toby? I get 138 ish KW above the line = 187 RWHP And 30 kw below the line so about 40 Hp Transmition losses Total of 228 hp - which it looks like 230 is written on the graph in Peters magic biro
Toby Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Posted February 20, 2008 Sanspeeds graphs are fooooooooking headache material . You can only tell the power by reading the "biro" numbers Peter writes on them , not very scientific but easier . Here's a 185bhp one from my old Harris pinto at sanspeed . Rough spec was a Group 1 head with WR40 cam , 45's , points and a pea shooter ashley twin box exhaust . It also made 175bhp at power engineering and 187bhp at southern carbs + injection so all pretty close to each other Gaz I see 104 KW above the line so 141.5 RWHP And 18 KW below so 24.5 Hp Losses 141.5+24.5 = 166 Hp Dont understand Peters 185 I would say he's read his own graph one big square out. ?? To make matters worse (sorry Gaz) but your highest reading looks as if the machine wasn't starting from zero on the one high reading.
Toby Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Posted February 20, 2008 How do you work this graph out toby for this one was 270 bhp http://www.oldskoolford.co.uk/phpBB2/vi ... c&start=60 And this one is 230 bhp http://www.oldskoolford.co.uk/phpBB2/vi ... 5&start=75 Dommo I see Andy's as follows.... Notice the graph starts 20 Kw under the line and I have ignored the one power run shooting off the top!! 154KW at the wheels, times 1.36 to make it horses, looks like 209.4 Rear wheel horses!! + what looks like 15KW (20 hp) under the line. So.... 210 + 20 = An estimated 230 flywheel figure if I have got the sums right I think the reason Andy's and Micks cars show different graphs is because Andy looks to have so little transmition losses - half that of Micks Andy has 15 Kw under the 0 point on the graph and Micks has 30 Kw. Mick is probably on wider tyres, possibly softer, and different gearing. Both very impressive and both engines / cars their performances speak for themselves - putting the graphs to one side!!
Toby Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Posted February 20, 2008 Mmmm 174bhp sandspeed 3.7 diff hot sunny day 151bhp t,o,t,d 4.1 diff freezing cold winter day would that explain the missing 23 bhp The whole situation at Sanspeed makes comparing engines very difficult though, but it is very interesting to see different power losses on similar cars. Obviously tyre width and tyre pressure comes into it all too which is why TOTD did all of our tyre pressures to the same on the day. I always do this when I go to Sanspeed too. - A good tip!! also forgot to mension 17" rims 205/45 tyre 3.7 diff hot sunny day at sandspeed 13" rims 185/60 tyre 4.1 diff freezing cold winter day at t,o,t,d As I say - makes no sence any of this!! However if it's a Cortina it's PUUUUURRRFECT!
Guest MK1gaz Posted February 20, 2008 Report Posted February 20, 2008 Gaz I see 104 KW above the line so 141.5 RWHP And 18 KW below so 24.5 Hp Losses 141.5+24.5 = 166 Hp Dont understand Peters 185 I would say he's read his own graph one big square out. ?? To make matters worse (sorry Gaz) but your highest reading looks as if the machine wasn't starting from zero on the one high reading. That dyno plots got lots of runs on it so it looks like the highest one doesn't start at the bottom but it does . I've never understood them myself and only personally believe the "biro" numbers on them . If my old engine was only 166 bhp it was amazing then because this engine powered a full weight mk1 escort to a 13.8 sec @ 98mph pass on street rubber at the pod last year . That's faster than all these so-called 200bhp xe's and zetecs then
Toby Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Posted February 20, 2008 That dyno plots got lots of runs on it so it looks like the highest one doesn't start at the bottom but it does . I've never understood them myself and only personally believe the "biro" numbers on them . If my old engine was only 166 bhp it was amazing then because this engine powered a full weight mk1 escort to a 13.8 sec @ 98mph pass on street rubber at the pod last year . That's faster than all these so-called 200bhp xe's and zetecs then Peter's slide rule is not a mystery! If you look at 1 kw on his comparison table it says 1.36 hp, when you look at 10 kw it says 13.6 hp and you can guess what 100 kw says!! Yes 136 hp. Peter's biro is not magic either!! Your car was geared well for the 1/4 and obviously had good power delivery for it's 13.8, but the on line calculators will tell you from your terminal speed (if you guess the car to weigh about 2000lbs) to have about 152 hp!! The thinking is that Peter's reads high so maybe it does..... Calculators here.... http://golenengineservice.com/calc/calchpe.htm This one's clever..... just put one number in.....it's not dead right but quite intuative and "fun" http://www.wallaceracing.com/etcalc.php
Toby Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Posted February 20, 2008 A quote about my findings from my Readers Rides..... Available to everyone on-line are programs which will estimate power figures, with a reasonable degree of accuracy, using car weight and terminal speed, I have attached the results below. See - I'm not picking on you Gaz!
Toby Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Posted February 20, 2008 I realised this morning that this post could be construde as a slating of Sanspeeds Dyno, which it is NOT!! I think Peter really knows his stuff, He occationally sticks a gas analyser up the exhaust but when and if it blows out he says "thats ok I don't need it anyway" A tribute to his skill is when we went to TOTD Chris used an analyser in it's rear pipe (ooo er misses) and said there was a hole in the fueling down low, but it was pretty much spot on for a cammy car. Peter had done this with experience and using the seat of his pants, he has always left me feeling he has tried the best he can on finding the best / most powerfull curve. I only started this thread as a guide to people which perhaps hadn't had the KW to HP explained as well as I had when I went.
Guest MK1gaz Posted February 20, 2008 Report Posted February 20, 2008 Yes no worries Toby , it's all interesting stuff i reckon . I sold my engine to my mate and his full weight mk1 escort run a 13.8 on street rubber with a £30 4 speed gearbox and a 3:9 diff . I think sanspeeds dyno is pretty much spot on myself and will be running my atmo cossie on it soon . I'm hoping it can match the top notch 230bhp engines but you never know really . As long as it sounds good and leaves black lines everywhere i don't care !!!!!!!
Admin Mk2Jo Posted February 20, 2008 Admin Report Posted February 20, 2008 Here's mine : 2.1 pinto, twin 48's and 3.5.4. diff Oh, and I should just add that I am well chuffed with the figure
Guest MK1gaz Posted February 20, 2008 Report Posted February 20, 2008 and the "biro" don't lie !!!!!!!!
Admin Mk2Jo Posted February 20, 2008 Admin Report Posted February 20, 2008 I don't get what Toby was on about with the bit under the line being important though
Guest MK1gaz Posted February 20, 2008 Report Posted February 20, 2008 Old style rollers measure transmission losses on the coast down (bit under the line) and use this to work out engine bhp . Torque of the Devils new Dyno-Dynamics rollers measure the power at the wheels as your car accelerates on them instead of when you coast down
Toby Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Posted February 20, 2008 I don't get what Toby was on about with the bit under the line being important though None of it's important mate it's how it goes.. I make your power about the same as Peter at around 111 RW KW (151 RW HP) and 24KW (34hp) on let off - under the line, So about what Peter says of 185 I didn't realise how tuned your car was!! The reason I mention under the line as important (joking aside) was because it looks like Peter has moved the graph paper up and started plotting from under the 0 line. So always look at the very left hand column of the graph to see that it starts at 0. If you look at Andy's it starts 2 big squares under 0 - so you have to add those on to the peek figure, and obviously allow for it when reading the "under the line" figure. Here's Andy's again...Note the start position of the graph.
Admin Mk2Jo Posted February 21, 2008 Admin Report Posted February 21, 2008 None of it's important mate it's how it goes.. I make your power about the same as Peter at around 111 RW KW (151 RW HP) and 24KW (34hp) on let off - under the line, So about what Peter says of 185 I didn't realise how tuned your car was!! Okay, thanks mate It has a little "mild" tuning I just need the damn lsd and diff now
Toby Posted February 21, 2008 Author Report Posted February 21, 2008 None of it's important mate it's how it goes.. I make your power about the same as Peter at around 111 RW KW (151 RW HP) and 24KW (34hp) on let off - under the line, So about what Peter says of 185 I didn't realise how tuned your car was!! Okay, thanks mate It has a little "mild" tuning I just need the damn lsd and diff now Are you going for the "big" set up? You know you want to!!
Admin Mk2Jo Posted February 21, 2008 Admin Report Posted February 21, 2008 None of it's important mate it's how it goes.. I make your power about the same as Peter at around 111 RW KW (151 RW HP) and 24KW (34hp) on let off - under the line, So about what Peter says of 185 I didn't realise how tuned your car was!! Okay, thanks mate It has a little "mild" tuning I just need the damn lsd and diff now Are you going for the "big" set up? You know you want to!! I am not a "trailer queen" and so I have to drive it to the venues .... so, I hope to go simple and easy with lsd & 4.1 diff Note to self in chant mode: I am not going to have a fully stripped out race car, I am not going to have a fully stripped out race car, I am not going to have a fully stripped out race car , I will not strip the car out and make it lighter with acrylic windows and drilled holes in the door and carbon panels and only one seat There, that should convince me
Mk 1 Mark Posted February 21, 2008 Report Posted February 21, 2008 None of it's important mate it's how it goes.. I make your power about the same as Peter at around 111 RW KW (151 RW HP) and 24KW (34hp) on let off - under the line, So about what Peter says of 185 I didn't realise how tuned your car was!! Okay, thanks mate It has a little "mild" tuning I just need the damn lsd and diff now Are you going for the "big" set up? You know you want to!! I am not a "trailer queen" and so I have to drive it to the venues .... so, I hope to go simple and easy with lsd & 4.1 diff Note to self in chant mode: I am not going to have a fully stripped out race car, I am not going to have a fully stripped out race car, I am not going to have a fully stripped out race car , I will not strip the car out and make it lighter with acrylic windows and drilled holes in the door and carbon panels and only one seat There, that should convince me All that power and a comfy road car Gaz will be happy...Bring it on Gaz!!! Heads up me thinks Bit of it girl and cheat that way
Toby Posted February 21, 2008 Author Report Posted February 21, 2008 None of it's important mate it's how it goes.. I make your power about the same as Peter at around 111 RW KW (151 RW HP) and 24KW (34hp) on let off - under the line, So about what Peter says of 185 I didn't realise how tuned your car was!! Okay, thanks mate It has a little "mild" tuning I just need the damn lsd and diff now Are you going for the "big" set up? You know you want to!! I am not a "trailer queen" and so I have to drive it to the venues .... so, I hope to go simple and easy with lsd & 4.1 diff Note to self in chant mode: I am not going to have a fully stripped out race car, I am not going to have a fully stripped out race car, I am not going to have a fully stripped out race car , I will not strip the car out and make it lighter with acrylic windows and drilled holes in the door and carbon panels and only one seat There, that should convince me A/ Not Convinced!! B/ Even more reason to "Go large" C/ See A!!
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