H&H High Torque Starter motors: Anyone had problems?

[Guest MK1gaz]

think mines 12:1

Yes you'll need 4 new ones a year mate , go 24v for sure as you'll be skint by 2009 otherwise

[marky4]

spoke to a guy at brise today he said if it's flattening the battery after 4 turns or so it's taking to much power from battery so could be the magnets inside the starter or somthing else but would prob cost as much as a new one to repair my one is not made anymore it's been superceded by a new model but he said i could have the new one for the same price as the old one was £185 so don't know what to do at the moment

[Toby]

spoke to a guy at brise today he said if it's flattening the battery after 4 turns or so it's taking to much power from battery so could be the magnets inside the starter or somthing else but would prob cost as much as a new one to repair my one is not made anymore it's been superceded by a new model but he said i could have the new one for the same price as the old one was £185 so don't know what to do at the moment

 

I've not had mine (this one) long enough to comment. They did try telling me that they had had good reports on this latest version. Ask if there's a warrantee on it!

 

I heave heard good reports about the Tilton ones but they're even more expensive. £260 + VAT ish Spitefull!!

 

The new Brise ones are the lightest

 

2 batteries are going to weigh a ton. Ok if you're Gaz with ONE MILLION horse power!!

 

I don't think I'd ask him to install your second battery either - hey Gaz

[Guest MK1gaz]

I had one of those new Brise £200 "super dooper" geared starters , it lastest 1 day !!!!!!!! An extra battery cost me £10 and doesn't weigh that much on the grand scale of things considering most cars have steel panels , glass , interior , engines , gearboxes , axles etc , etc

[marky4]

I had one of those new Brise £200 "super dooper" geared starters , it lastest 1 day !!!!!!!! An extra battery cost me £10 and doesn't weigh that much on the grand scale of things considering most cars have steel panels , glass , interior , engines , gearboxes , axles etc , etc

 

what do you do gaz just link the 2 batteries together

[Guest MK1gaz]

Here's a hi-tec drawing for you . Just use a cheap secondhand starter motor at first to check you've done it correct before buying a new one . Certain starters may not like a 12v ignition trigger with a 24v main live feed so you may have to fit a relay next to the starter which takes the 24v onto the starter trigger wire (i'll do another drawing for this when i go down the garage tommorrow and have a look at mine) but some work fine without a relay

[Toby]

Gaz how many standard starter motors have you had? Is it possible something else is wrong? I feel a bit for Brise, H&H etc. If you say a normal starter is fine, and you're right??? then we all go buying special starters cos our cars dont start and then blame the geared starter when it doesn't fix all the problems.

 

What do you think?

[Guest MK1gaz]

Well i've tried a 12v set up with an expensive geared starter and they don't last 5 mins . They work ok for a bit and then start to slow down (like boxxers one did) . They charge a fortune to fix them as well . My engine has full management and will not start UNLESS it can turn over at a decent speed or else the E.C.U. can't read the crank trigger position . This means i had no choice but to go 24v but you may get lucky with a normal dizzy set up , high compression + a geared starter . I spoke to Wayne at W.P.E. and he told me to use 2 car batteries with 24v going to a standard starter . It really works great , the engine spins over at great speed and fires at once . You can't sit there cranking and cranking though as the starter will overheat but as the engine turns over at double the speed it's very easy to start the car after a few seconds . I used a £10 secondhand starter that was lying in a front garden for years to try it out (this fell to bits at the rolling road day) but i'm sure it would have fell to bits on 12v as well . Waynes had the same set up on his Anglia for donkeys years and had no problems with it . I picked up a brand new standard starter yesterday for £70 so i'll let you know how long it lasts . Alot of the expensive geared starters suffer on a street car (the race car posse don't stop/start very often compared to us) and i was warned about them by a major parts supplier (names withheld to protect the innocent ) who sells sells lots of them . They either start slowing down after a bit of use , burn out , smash teeth , won't spin the engine over once it's hot or just die . It's a problem for sure but i'm praying that the 24v set up will cure my problems and hopefully everyone elses , it's the way to go

[Guest MK1gaz]

If anyone does go 24v your cars alternater will only charge 1 of the 2 batteries (the first one with the normal 12v supply to the cars electrics). The other battery which helps with the cranking doesn't charge . This isn't a problem as this battery ONLY gets used for a few seconds at a time during cranking , the rest of the time it does nothing . You can either just charge it up every few months or swop the batteries around every now and then

[boXXer]

it was a good setup when i looked at it outside TOTD. very neat and tidy if done correctly like yours. Only thing that puts me off of the weight factor.

 

I honestly think i may have a pinion/ring gear problem though. Gunna rewire the starter tomorrow and go from there

[Guest MK1gaz]

You could use 2x 12v lightweight Varley racing batteries instead to save weight but they cost a fortune . The normal type car batteries i used where not that heavy really as you only need 2xsmall ones not wacking great big diesil lorry ones

[boXXer]

cheers mate. i'll see how i go tomorrow.

[Toby]

Cheers for all your thoughts Gaz. I remember now you say that you had the "engine not turning over fast enough for the ECU" problem so this was probably the only solution for you.

 

One problem with the Varley idea, although they're light and powerfull they do insist on you keeping them FULLY charged for them to last so they might not be ideal in this situation. (unless charged on your return home every night)

 

As you say though WPE has had his 24v starting for years and had no problems. Seems its another pays your money and takes your choices situation.

[Guest MK1gaz]

Yes , it's a shame about the geared starters though as this would make life very simple , my Brise one i bought was very nice , fooooooking useless at starting the engine though !!!!!!!!

[Toby]

Yes , it's a shame about the geared starters though as this would make life very simple , my Brise one i bought was very nice , fooooooking useless at starting the engine though !!!!!!!!

 

 

Mmmm well time will tell with mine. Got all of my fingers and toes crossed! It really hurts!

[boXXer]

well, iv'e come to the conclusion that its the meshing of pinion/ring gear that is fooked.

 

Changed all wiring, and it dont seem any better. it makes some nasty noises from the starter too.

 

I really CANT be arsed to do it myself, so gunna get someone to have a look at it for me.

 

stoopid cars.

[Toby]

well, iv'e come to the conclusion that its the meshing of pinion/ring gear that is fooked.

 

Changed all wiring, and it dont seem any better. it makes some nasty noises from the starter too.

 

I really CANT be arsed to do it myself, so gunna get someone to have a look at it for me.

 

stoopid cars.

 

If you've done it all mate send the starter back,

 

If you want me to look at the mesh for you you'll need a new ring gear, a block, a crank and your bell housing.

[marky4]

right after checking and double checking earth connections, all positive connections, fitting a new kill switch etc. starter still really slow and draining the battery talked to man at brise and he said it was problably the starter taking to much juice from battery and cost of repair could be as much as a new one so i bit the bullet and brought a new one fitted it and all is sweet (for now) fires up instantly and turns over nice and quick

 

so fingers crossed

[Toby]

right after checking and double checking earth connections, all positive connections, fitting a new kill switch etc. starter still really slow and draining the battery talked to man at brise and he said it was problably the starter taking to much juice from battery and cost of repair could be as much as a new one so i bit the bullet and brought a new one fitted it and all is sweet (for now) fires up instantly and turns over nice and quick

 

so fingers crossed

 

Cool, keep us posted!! See who's lasts longest!!

[marky4]

right after checking and double checking earth connections, all positive connections, fitting a new kill switch etc. starter still really slow and draining the battery talked to man at brise and he said it was problably the starter taking to much juice from battery and cost of repair could be as much as a new one so i bit the bullet and brought a new one fitted it and all is sweet (for now) fires up instantly and turns over nice and quick

 

so fingers crossed

 

Cool, keep us posted!! See who's lasts longest!!

 

yes i will toby if it last as long as the old brise one did(4 years +) then i won't be to unhappy

[Toby]

right after checking and double checking earth connections, all positive connections, fitting a new kill switch etc. starter still really slow and draining the battery talked to man at brise and he said it was problably the starter taking to much juice from battery and cost of repair could be as much as a new one so i bit the bullet and brought a new one fitted it and all is sweet (for now) fires up instantly and turns over nice and quick

 

so fingers crossed

 

Cool, keep us posted!! See who's lasts longest!!

 

yes i will toby if it last as long as the old brise one did(4 years +) then i won't be to unhappy

 

But if it lasts as long as my last....3 months

 

To be fair I have aligned it properly now so I hope mine lasts at least 4 years now

[marky4]

right after checking and double checking earth connections, all positive connections, fitting a new kill switch etc. starter still really slow and draining the battery talked to man at brise and he said it was problably the starter taking to much juice from battery and cost of repair could be as much as a new one so i bit the bullet and brought a new one fitted it and all is sweet (for now) fires up instantly and turns over nice and quick

 

so fingers crossed

 

Cool, keep us posted!! See who's lasts longest!!

 

yes i will toby if it last as long as the old brise one did(4 years +) then i won't be to unhappy

 

But if it lasts as long as my last....3 months

 

To be fair I have aligned it properly now so I hope mine lasts at least 4 years now

 

i'm sure they will both last at least 4 months i mean years

[boXXer]

mine lasted 3 whole months!

 

gunna call them today and have a word.