suspension geometary........

[vibrating_Cake]

riiight.........

im gonna rant here a bit, but im looking on opinions on the best options to go for.

 

so... here we go...

 

i want

 

ANTI DIVE!, the brakes work so much better WITH anti-dive fitted.

 

standard 90degrees TCA-chassis relationship while using anti-dive

 

upto 5degrees castor the more the merrier.

 

a slight positive camber at ride height (so under braking its near enough 0degrees camber)

 

something to near enough eliminate castor changes in the TCA (like a wishbone setup in modern FWD stuff)

 

and...

 

to do this... what would be the best way, cause to move the top mounts backwards the shroud for the inner wing is in the way

 

to move the ARB mounts FORWARDS i'd need some way of mounting the ARB and some place of mounting the new re-located anti dive

 

how do i stop castor changes (forward/backward movement in the TCA under heavy braking) or is the ARB enough to eliminate this on its own??

 

whats the best options here???

 

[Retromotorsport]

Mounting it .. its your car, your with it, so you mount it... weld on brackets.. bolt on brakets, both standard ones or homemade, or weld an antidive kit to the chassis..or make an anti-dive kit and weld it/bolt it..

 

to be honest, theres so many ways of doing it it would be like writing a book.

 

the castor change, the only way to stop that is to have double wishbones on a narrow angle .. meaning the inboard pickups have to be near the centerline of the car.

 

Me ? I'd make bolt on chassis brackets, that mount a 3 bush bar to the chassis at the hieght i want .. the bar would be adjustable at the thread to fine tune the castor.

[bortaf]

Why do the brakes work better with an anti dive?

5 deg is a lot of castor

if you want a double wishbone setup sell the capri and buy a cortina

[Retromotorsport]

Bortaf, mcpherson stut cars with short TCA lengths suffer from camber gain under dive, ie the outside edge of the tyre is lifted from the ground... so losing tyre footprint area , its even worse with stiffwalled low profile tyres.

 

Castor gains you camber in the direction you want it to go when cornering, you want neg on the outside and pos in the inside, running large castor means you can run less static neg camber.

[vibrating_Cake]

Mounting it .. its your car, your with it, so you mount it... weld on brackets.. bolt on brakets, both standard ones or homemade, or weld an antidive kit to the chassis..or make an anti-dive kit and weld it/bolt it..

 

to be honest, theres so many ways of doing it it would be like writing a book.

 

the castor change, the only way to stop that is to have double wishbones on a narrow angle .. meaning the inboard pickups have to be near the centerline of the car.

 

Me ? I'd make bolt on chassis brackets, that mount a 3 bush bar to the chassis at the hieght i want .. the bar would be adjustable at the thread to fine tune the castor.

 

ermmm any chance of a simple diagram?? i kinda get what you mean

[bortaf]

Bortaf, mcpherson stut cars with short TCA lengths suffer from camber gain under dive, ie the outside edge of the tyre is lifted from the ground... so losing tyre footprint area , its even worse with stiffwalled low profile tyres.

 

Castor gains you camber in the direction you want it to go when cornering, you want neg on the outside and pos in the inside, running large castor means you can run less static neg camber.

 

Ah i see what you meen by loosing tyre contact cheers

I guess with longer TCAs the arc they scribe is larger so for the same upward movement of the wheel there is less camber change ?

 

 

I've played with the cortina (Mk3/4/5) castor to aid turn in, it really helps as they are pretty shit as standard, P/S helps mask the loads it passes back as well or am i imagening that ?

I run both P/S and non P/S cortys and the self centering on the non P/S seems more harsh than the P/S car, although it helps get some feel in the P/S car which is over light TBH i run different wheel tyre combo on the pair so not really a good comparison ?

 

sorry to steal the thread i love this techy stuff i just need to ask silly questions

[Retromotorsport]

a simple drawing would just show what i describe, full build plans would involve me doing measurements and then drawing it out ...

[vibrating_Cake]

a simple drawing would do dude i just cant seem to imagine it.

[Retromotorsport]

Look at your car.. and imagine the arb down a bit and forward a bit ..

[vibrating_Cake]

Look at your car.. and imagine the arb down a bit and forward a bit ..

 

go on.... a quick sketch?? lol, its not going in, its just sitting at my eyeballs staring at me, and i cant see the answer lol

[bortaf]

Look at your car.. and imagine the arb down a bit and forward a bit ..

 

go on.... a quick sketch?? lol, its not going in, its just sitting at my eyeballs staring at me, and i cant see the answer lol

 

Try waving your hands about like a Kung-Fu master, that's what i do to visualise the wheel movement and me missus thinks it's well funny

 

She asked me the other night if i'd taken up ti-che, i said no i'm working out long and short TCA movements

[vibrating_Cake]

Look at your car.. and imagine the arb down a bit and forward a bit ..

 

go on.... a quick sketch?? lol, its not going in, its just sitting at my eyeballs staring at me, and i cant see the answer lol

 

Try waving your hands about like a Kung-Fu master, that's what i do to visualise the wheel movement and me missus thinks it's well funny

 

She asked me the other night if i'd taken up ti-che, i said no i'm working out long and short TCA movements

 

were you saying out aloud "wooiiii chaiii teeeee kaaaa POW!!!"

while you were doing it hahahaha

[bortaf]

Look at your car.. and imagine the arb down a bit and forward a bit ..

 

go on.... a quick sketch?? lol, its not going in, its just sitting at my eyeballs staring at me, and i cant see the answer lol

 

Try waving your hands about like a Kung-Fu master, that's what i do to visualise the wheel movement and me missus thinks it's well funny

 

She asked me the other night if i'd taken up ti-che, i said no i'm working out long and short TCA movements

 

were you saying out aloud "wooiiii chaiii teeeee kaaaa POW!!!"

while you were doing it hahahaha

 

I aint hong kong fikken foohey

[herb capri]

dead interesting chaps ,well good advice and explanation,nice to know im not the only prat who acts out mechanical stuff.

mike

[caprinerd]

wouldnt the use of rose jointed tca (inner and outer) bushed areas stop the back and forth movement better than rubber/polly bushes. ok i know youd lose some of the smoothness of the rubber/polly bush but it should work more efficient

[pauln]

wouldnt the use of rose jointed tca (inner and outer) bushed areas stop the back and forth movement better than rubber/polly bushes. ok i know youd lose some of the smoothness of the rubber/polly bush but it should work more efficient

 

Just put rose jointed tcas and compression struts on my Cortina. If its more harsh it's made up for by the improved feel..

[v6pop]

I put the rose jointed track control arms on my escort,also a twin cam antiroll bar which was thicker and which also pulled the legs forward to increase the caster.Made a big differance.

Depends how far you want to go but I also checked for toe-out when the suspension went through its travel(took the springs off and moved the car up and down whilst using track gauges to read results at various hieghts) Made adjustments by spacing the steering rack off its mounts until the readings stayed toe-in or parallel through its whole movement.

Lots of small things add up to a fine handling car

 

PS:Just another thought,before you even start altering stuff make sure your tyres are good quality items and not mis-matched.Also tyre pressures make a big differance,check there correct,no point setting it up on duff tyres with no air!!

[escortwithsunroof]

jasus lads, great read there must say

 

so much i didnt know

 

i want an anti-dive and a twink anti-roll bar for mine now

[vibrating_Cake]

I put the rose jointed track control arms on my escort,also a twin cam antiroll bar which was thicker and which also pulled the legs forward to increase the caster.Made a big differance.

Depends how far you want to go but I also checked for toe-out when the suspension went through its travel(took the springs off and moved the car up and down whilst using track gauges to read results at various hieghts) Made adjustments by spacing the steering rack off its mounts until the readings stayed toe-in or parallel through its whole movement.

Lots of small things add up to a fine handling car

 

PS:Just another thought,before you even start altering stuff make sure your tyres are good quality items and not mis-matched.Also tyre pressures make a big differance,check there correct,no point setting it up on duff tyres with no air!!

 

any pics of the front legs before and after for the castor???

the top mounts are too large to modify to get them back, so getting the tca side forwards is the only.... ish option lol

[nelly231]

Does anyone know how much the twin cam anti roll bar moves the tca forwards?

 

I have ground the shoulder back about 10mm on a standard roll bar but not sure how this compares.

[vibrating_Cake]

Does anyone know how much the twin cam anti roll bar moves the tca forwards?

 

I have ground the shoulder back about 10mm on a standard roll bar but not sure how this compares.

 

pics please :D:D

was it easy??

how well does it fit in the bush???

[nelly231]

i did most of it carefully with a grinder and finished it off with a file.

as long as you keep the shoulder nice and square and keep the bush diameter as consistent as possible it should all fit fine. will take some pics when im next at the workshop.

 

as i said though im not sure how this compares to a twin cam roll bar.

[vibrating_Cake]

i did most of it carefully with a grinder and finished it off with a file.

as long as you keep the shoulder nice and square and keep the bush diameter as consistent as possible it should all fit fine. will take some pics when im next at the workshop.

 

as i said though im not sure how this compares to a twin cam roll bar.

 

ta very much!!! did you re-thread the bar or just use washers to space it onto the thread??

 

iirc from other threads i can take ~12mm off the arb this way, which takes me back to almost normal castor..... but its all in a "good way" towards getting where i want.

 

how much shoulder did you leave??? constant shoulder all around?

i was thinking i can get it a little further than 12mm (every little helps) but with the kink in the ARB the shoulder may be smaller on one side than the other, but with the dome shaped washer that pushes into the bush would this matter???

 

[nelly231]

yeah i stopped at 10mm as it got close to the kink on the arb. i just used washers to space the tca forward.