anyone know employment law?

[stevepeanut]

I work for a company that installs loft and cavity wall insulation. Just got a memo tonight, can anyone tell me if this legal.

 

"Subject - remedial work and fines

 

We are currently paying out in excess of £1000 a day in remedial work for customers where we have caused damage to properties or left mess following an installation.

 

There are currently fines in place of £25 for any mess that is left or damage caused. This does not include the cost of having to send another fitter or supervisor back out to assess the damage or rectify the job and the time involved from the office in sorting out the complaint.

 

Due to the cost of any remedial work being more than the price we receive for completeing the job, with immediate effect, the full cost of the job will be deducted back from the fitter if there is damage or a bill to pay for recification.

 

There are several employess that are currently costing the branch more in remedial work than money received for work being completed. These will be discussed shortly with each individual.

 

If you have any queries regarding this, please speak to your supervisor.

 

Please sign below to confirm your understanding of these requirements."

 

 

So basically we get paid £25 for each job we do, and each job is worth anything from £150- £700 to the company. So now if I slip and fall through a ceiling, and it costs £200 I could end up having to pay it. Anyone clued up on this type of thing? Can they actually enforce this?

[bigdaz27]

i would speek to citizens advice about it they will no if its right or wrong

[stevepeanut]

i would speek to citizens advice about it they will no if its right or wrong

 

last year, we got a memo saying, if a fault/mistake was found on an install, we would be fined £25, one of the lads spoke to citizens advice, we were asked to sign an agreement, they said dont sign it. Wonder what they'd make of this.

[bigdaz27]

they shoild have insurence for this sort of thing are you self employed

[pauln]

Does it say in your contract that you will be liable for any damage to a property you are working in? I would have thought that by employing you and sending you to the job the employer is responsible for your actions and omissions (excepting health and safety issues). Thats my angle on it but I can't give a definative answer. Did you sign the agreement as that would make your max liability £25 not the full cost of the job.

[livewire7116]

surely thats why they pay liability insurance for?

 

if the fine to yourself is taken from a bonus i think your pretty much screwed as they could just re word it to say only if work is 100%, but surely you should leave a job clean and tidy like any professional so nowt to worry about surely??

[stevepeanut]

surely thats why they pay liability insurance for?

 

if the fine to yourself is taken from a bonus i think your pretty much screwed as they could just re word it to say only if work is 100%, but surely you should leave a job clean and tidy like any professional so nowt to worry about surely??

 

we are not self employed, we are employed by the company, and paid per job. I didnt sign the agreement to pay the £25 fines. I leave 99% of my jobs as I found them, but I've spent 7 years in lofts, balancing on 2inch wide beams, and from time to time you slip and crack or smash a ceiling, as the old boss said "its a hazzard of the job"

[mk1super]

That doesnt sound right at all mate i'd not sign a thing get down to Citizens advice asap

[Mr.Sumo]

 

we are not self employed, we are employed by the company, and paid per job.

 

I didnt sign the agreement to pay the £25 fines. I leave 99% of my jobs as I found them, but I've spent 7 years in lofts, balancing on 2inch wide beams, and from time to time you slip and crack or smash a ceiling, as the old boss said "its a hazzard of the job"

 

Steve ,

There little memo to me comes across as passing the buck mate , they have insurance to cover any damage to a 3rd parties property ( liability ) , which means they are covered 100% if something goes wrong ...thats what insurance is for .

I personnally wouldn"t sigh it mate ....if you are doing your job as required and leaving the jobs clean and tidy or as found , your concience should be clear...let the scruffy gits doing the job badly pay the " fine "

[Smudger105e]

It is surely up to the Company to discipline the staff not doing the job correctly, or at least put them on poor performance with a view to dismissal.

 

I would agree, don't sign anything. Are you in a Trade Union of any kind?

[scooter]

Hi,

 

I believe I'm correct in saying that if you sign to say you have recieved

the memo it can be deemed you accept it and are giving the company permission to make deductions from your wages/salary.

The only deductions that can be taken without specific permission are

income tax and national insurance if you are an employee.

 

If in any doubt don't sign anything.

[shakey n his fezz]

thats illegal they cant charge you for mistakes

[lee_capri]

you work for

 

 

miller pattison then mate and they can do what the f**k they like

 

they will of checked it all out first

 

also known as sheffield insurlation

[lee_capri]

steve mate,

 

you are on profit related pay mate,and if you are only getting £35 a loft your beeing robbed mate,

 

has we were on 20% of price,then we swithched to the same sceme your on but lot's more then £25 a job,

 

that's for remedial's they will only inforce if you have really f**ked up,if your any good you int got nelt to worry about,

 

it's t get rid of s**t fitter's who are payed to do a job and dont do any-thing propley,

 

thing steve has not said to you all he is own boss more or less has when he is on site he is in charege of him self only contact with office or supervison is by phone,

 

and they will say to you if you dont like it leave mate,look at the unemployment figure's

[X-pack-Glyn]

Sign fook all mate.... and get some facts first.

 

wther they can do it or not thay are taking the piss, give em hell either way...

 

thats typical wanka middle management tactics that is!

[stevepeanut]

well I didnt sign it, I just brought it home for reference, nothing has been said about not signing it, so I am just keeping my head down and plodding on with

[X-pack-Glyn]

well I didnt sign it, I just brought it home for reference, nothing has been said about not signing it, so I am just keeping my head down and plodding on with

 

Dont keep your head down mate, worst thing you can do, employers relly on this kinda thing to screw us even harder mate.

 

ive given mine hell since i started mine one year ago after being blatantly lied to to get me in the door, as soon as i was in rules changed straight away, they even managed to fook me off completely before i even started the company after contacting my last company for a reference before i even fooking left.

 

furthermore the employers are using the current climate and conditions to screw us over double time.

 

give em both fooking both barrels mate and take NO shit, you show any weakness and they will use it as a too against you and srew you over by showing up any weaknesses you may have!

 

in meetings play the silent card though as this can be seen as gross missconduct, you gota be carefull how you play i, but play it right and you can drive middle management roundin circles and turn the tables right round on em

 

bottom line mate, DONT trust anyone in the office who wears a tie!

[stevepeanut]

not allowed in any meetings at all, i drive my van in the yard, take my jobs from a slot in the wall, load up and drive back out. See my supervisor for the odd few minutes now and again. Have one or two phone calls a day with the office girls if theres anything changed with my jobs.

 

Now the big problem is this, I fit insulation in private homes, and usually make £300-£400 after tax to take home most weeks. If I open my mouth about anything, within 2 or 3 days I'll be took off the private jobs and sent to insulate new build houses, and take home £200 a week, its happend to other lads. Our contract says we earn minimum wage, plus bonus on certain schemes. So I have to keep my head down and not kick up a fuss to stay on the high paid private jobs.

[MK2Ed]

Dont keep your head down mate, worst thing you can do, employers relly on this kinda thing to screw us even harder mate.

 

ive given mine hell since i started mine one year ago after being blatantly lied to to get me in the door, as soon as i was in rules changed straight away, they even managed to fook me off completely before i even started the company after contacting my last company for a reference before i even fooking left.

 

furthermore the employers are using the current climate and conditions to screw us over double time.

 

give em both fooking both barrels mate and take NO shit, you show any weakness and they will use it as a too against you and srew you over by showing up any weaknesses you may have!

 

in meetings play the silent card though as this can be seen as gross missconduct, you gota be carefull how you play i, but play it right and you can drive middle management roundin circles and turn the tables right round on em

 

bottom line mate, DONT trust anyone in the office who wears a tie!

 

I'm liking this. Not only that, you are spot on mate - the business focuses only on profit - look after yourself...

[X-pack-Glyn]

not allowed in any meetings at all, i drive my van in the yard, take my jobs from a slot in the wall, load up and drive back out. See my supervisor for the odd few minutes now and again. Have one or two phone calls a day with the office girls if theres anything changed with my jobs.

 

Now the big problem is this, I fit insulation in private homes, and usually make £300-£400 after tax to take home most weeks. If I open my mouth about anything, within 2 or 3 days I'll be took off the private jobs and sent to insulate new build houses, and take home £200 a week, its happend to other lads. Our contract says we earn minimum wage, plus bonus on certain schemes. So I have to keep my head down and not kick up a fuss to stay on the high paid private jobs.

 

right, i see, you drive a van and get yer hands dirty, in other words you are treated like me, a pleb, if they could get robots to replace you they would.. believe me mate you mean shit to them, just money.

 

a couple of jobs ago (ive been doing the same thing for years, just jumped around companies) one of the engineers died in an accident (out of work) and the first thing one of the managers said.... "does he owe us any money"... since that day ive had zero time for any kind of management whatsoever, you my friend are nothing more than a number to them.

As for not being allowed in any meetings sums the above up perfectly.

 

also, be very carefull with anything you say to the office girls as they will be encouraged to pass anything you say on to middle management, who will then use any incriminating evidence as a brownie point tool for arse licking the upper management, HOWEVER, it pays to have an insider in the office, i payed someone a nice bung before now to feedback anything that was heard in the office, it payed devidends and allowed me to keep one step ahead lots of times but is a very dodgy game, you need to know who you can trust.

 

i would say disassociate yourself with the company as much as possible appart from work related issues (xmas do's are out).

 

also, i should say that every company has its snitches, some of ours are engineers too, these arseholes can be a very usefull tool and can actually be used to your advantage, find out who the snitches are and reap the rewards mate

[MK2Ed]

look after yourself...

 

And your mates... There's always a willing sycophant in these tough times though so choose them wisely ...

[Fishtailparka]

Make a hat out of tin foil too, that way they won't know what you are thinking.

[stevepeanut]

not allowed in any meetings at all, i drive my van in the yard, take my jobs from a slot in the wall, load up and drive back out. See my supervisor for the odd few minutes now and again. Have one or two phone calls a day with the office girls if theres anything changed with my jobs.

 

Now the big problem is this, I fit insulation in private homes, and usually make £300-£400 after tax to take home most weeks. If I open my mouth about anything, within 2 or 3 days I'll be took off the private jobs and sent to insulate new build houses, and take home £200 a week, its happend to other lads. Our contract says we earn minimum wage, plus bonus on certain schemes. So I have to keep my head down and not kick up a fuss to stay on the high paid private jobs.

 

right, i see, you drive a van and get yer hands dirty, in other words you are treated like me, a pleb, if they could get robots to replace you they would.. believe me mate you mean shit to them, just money.

 

a couple of jobs ago (ive been doing the same thing for years, just jumped around companies) one of the engineers died in an accident (out of work) and the first thing one of the managers said.... "does he owe us any money"... since that day ive had zero time for any kind of management whatsoever, you my friend are nothing more than a number to them.

As for not being allowed in any meetings sums the above up perfectly.

 

also, be very carefull with anything you say to the office girls as they will be encouraged to pass anything you say on to middle management, who will then use any incriminating evidence as a brownie point tool for arse licking the upper management, HOWEVER, it pays to have an insider in the office, i payed someone a nice bung before now to feedback anything that was heard in the office, it payed devidends and allowed me to keep one step ahead lots of times but is a very dodgy game, you need to know who you can trust.

 

i would say disassociate yourself with the company as much as possible appart from work related issues (xmas do's are out).

 

also, i should say that every company has its snitches, some of ours are engineers too, these arseholes can be a very usefull tool and can actually be used to your advantage, find out who the snitches are and reap the rewards mate

 

I worked at another branch in northeast, before I got transfered to yorkshire when I met our lass. At the NE one, they had a few do's, and I was the only fitter, to resufe to go to all of them. I cant get how other fitters, who curse management all day for the way they are treated, suddenly think its fine to go socialise with them, stand next to them all smiley with a drink.

One of our fitters was killed in a car crash nothing to do with work, and the supervisor was talking to the family, "we need to pick up the van" "is the van ok while its been stood at your house" "we'll send someone out to the funeral, but is the van ok?"

all I can do is keep my mouth shut and make as much money as I can, I do have a mate, who keeps me informed of things, but I have been bitten in the ass before, when I tried to trust one of the office staff, never again