x flow vs zetec

[Jiffer]

Until yesterday at boxhill I had it all planed out, over the winter the mk2 cortina was getting an all steel xflow along with a few other bits, but mk2zetec planted the idea in head of a zetec.

I've been mullin this over and so far heres the fors and againts:

for:

price

power

reliabilty?

 

against:

not a crossflow (I do like continuity)

more fab work

more electical work(looms etc)

can they run webers.

which one?

any input would be a help

[Synergy]

I went through exactly this about 6 months ago and have opted to go the Zetec route for a number of reasons:

 

I could buy a brand new in the crate Black Top 2.0 for less than a decent rebuild and unleaded conversion for an X/Flow or Pinto.

 

They accept Twin 45s of the correct spec very well.

 

They will return 180 fly wheel BHP with ease.

 

I had quite a few other reasons but these are the main ones

[Jiffer]

cheers mate

whats a black top?

also is there a difference between zetec and duratec?

[Synergy]

Check this site out:-

 

http://www.zetecescorts.bravehost.com/

 

Hope that helps

 

The first Duratecs (ST170) were essentially renamed Zetecs, later Duratecs are a totally different engine, the easiest way to spot them is they have a pinto inlet/outlet orientation.

[GT_lenny]

when i bought my mk2 tina i didn't come with an engine so i looked at sticking a x-flow in but as synergy said the cost of getting any sort of power out of them was quite a bit more then a zetec conversion, as for wiring etc the megajolt ecu set up is quite simple (no really it is) my £50 scrapyard blacktop (laetr zetec with plastic rocker cover) made 140bhp at the wheels through a set of £40 bike carbs on a home made inlet manifold , adn thats with the standard mundano cast pig iron exhaust manifold

 

dont get me wrong i love to see a screaming x-flow making big numbers but for my wallet the was no contest

[oliwally]

Check this site out:-

 

http://www.zetecescorts.bravehost.com/

 

Hope that helps

 

The first Duratecs (ST170) were essentially renamed Zetecs, later Duratecs are a totally different engine, the easiest way to spot them is they have a pinto inlet/outlet orientation.

 

and the fact that Duratecs run a timing chain instead of a cambelt.

2 types of silver tops.

early ones that had trouble burning exhaust valves out,they had DOHC in a rectangle box cast into the cover,nearly all have been reworked to stop it happening again.

later silver tops have zetec cast int to covers and these had the updates carried out at the factory.

black tops are a completely new zetec,better cambelt drive system,plastic covers,better head flow and solid tappets instead of hydraulic ones,but the bottom end is slightly weaker.

I had a 1800 early silver top in my mk2 and while on paper it sounded the mutz nutz,and it did sound nice on 45's,it had no real go in it,it just rev'd and rev'd without getting any faster.

totally disappionted me tbh,but i will say i only managed a short drive before setting about a resto,and it had cut slicks type yoko's on and a 4.4 slipper.

go for the biggest engine you can get.

[radar tech]

i recently brought a brand spanking new 2.0 blacktop for £650 delivered,,, cheap as chips

[Fiesta Steve]

Before being enticed by the initial cheapness of a zetec, price up the entire installtion costs as they mount up.

 

I don't see how a zetec can be any more reliable than a Crossflow, they both have the same bits that go round and round inside, except there are more bits to go wrong in the zetec, whereas the Crossflows are proven to be reliable. I have run crossflow powered cars as daily drivers for over 10 years and have never really had any problems.

 

Isn't there someone on here that fits zetecs on a weekly basis in there Escort 'cos they keep going pop ?? Can't remember there user name

[GT_lenny]

fair comment steve, However his motor is a standard zetec with throttle bodies so must be giving in the region of 170ish BHP and when goes pop he can go fetch a new one for £50-100

How much would it cost to get that sort of power from a crossflow and at that power how reliable would it be?

[Fiesta Steve]

fair comment steve, However his motor is a standard zetec with throttle bodies so must be giving in the region of 170ish BHP and when goes pop he can go fetch a new one for £50-100

How much would it cost to get that sort of power from a crossflow and at that power how reliable would it be?

 

I don't think reliability would be a problem as to get that power it would have to be built proper. If you built it yourself you could do it for a few grand or if someone builds it for you it would cost several grand

[GT_lenny]

i dunno about 1/4 mile times - it would be interesting to compare but its one of them situations where you're never gunna get a true comparisson(too many variables) i agree though xpower from a x-flow seems to be "faster" than x-power from a zetec,

wonder why that is?????

[Fiesta Steve]

i dunno about 1/4 mile times - it would be interesting to compare but its one of them situations where you're never gunna get a true comparisson(too many variables) i agree though xpower from a x-flow seems to be "faster" than x-power from a zetec,

wonder why that is?????

 

I don't know, maybe 'cos its just oldskool

 

A aback to back test would be good though, a 2 litre Crossflow with 180 bhp back to back with a 2 litre zetec 180 bhp, would the out come be the same ?? The results would be most interesting

[radar tech]

i think next months classic ford mag are doin some sort of comparison feature

[Fiesta Steve]

i think next months classic ford mag are doin some sort of comparison feature

 

Really, but I had the idea first

 

Maybe they'll send me a free copy

[radar tech]

ask them......dont ask you dont get

[Fiesta Steve]

ask them......dont ask you dont get

 

If I got sent free copy's I could tell the masses how good it is, a bit like free advertising for them

[GT_lenny]

in all honesty i think the x-flow would win a 1/4mile test 8 valve engines always seem better off the line , it'd be interesting round a track though i think

also i cant imagine the big power crossflow being too civalised on the road(where my OSF spends 99.9% of its time)

[Fiesta Steve]

in all honesty i think the x-flow would win a 1/4mile test 8 valve engines always seem better off the line , it'd be interesting round a track though i think

also i cant imagine the big power crossflow being too civalised on the road(where my OSF spends 99.9% of its time)

 

Good point well made, maybe it comes down to what you use your car for ?? Ie: road car or track days/drag strip ??

 

And possibly your budget ? As one is certainly more cost effective than the other.

[petrolhead]

If you have the budget to go for an all steel crossflow then I would suggest going for the St170 lump on webers or throttle bodies.

 

I did look at the 'true' cost of fitting a zetec and it was formidable. Zetecs themselves are cheap but I priced up the installation parts as coming to £2k.

 

I think that possibly the best compromise for you would be spending the money on a similar engine to mine or Fiesta Steve's (see engine builders section for my build http://www.oldskoolford.co.uk/phpBB2/vi ... hp?t=71517)

 

This cost me £1900 but I already had the 45's and I already had the xflow. Don't bother with steel crank for the road, use the money to go for Motorbike throttle bodies and an Emerald ECU.

 

This would give you the best of both worlds, cracking 150bhp with loads of driveable torque, decent MPG and an original and reliable engine (but with a modern twist).

[GT_lenny]

2 grand its true you could spend that much fitting a zetec if you bought all the conversion parts but how many people do ? most just buy a waterail and then raid the ford parts bin i bet my whole conversion cost less than an emerald ecu

[Fiesta Steve]

2 grand its true you could spend that much fitting a zetec if you bought all the conversion parts but how many people do ? most just buy a waterail and then raid the ford parts bin i bet my whole conversion cost less than an emerald ecu

 

The same could be said about the Crossflow, I built a 13 second car for pocket money, I raided ebay !! If I raided the Burton Power catalogue it would have costed a fortune, lol !!

 

As for all steel, its really not needed, standard crank and rods are strong, steel cranks are very heavy and will slow you down

[zetecmk2]

i think you need 1 of each!!!

[oliwally]

2 grand its true you could spend that much fitting a zetec if you bought all the conversion parts but how many people do ? most just buy a waterail and then raid the ford parts bin i bet my whole conversion cost less than an emerald ecu

 

The same could be said about the Crossflow, I built a 13 second car for pocket money, I raided ebay !! If I raided the Burton Power catalogue it would have costed a fortune, lol !!

 

As for all steel, its really not needed, standard crank and rods are strong, steel cranks are very heavy and will slow you down

 

I know of a FF1600 that runs a rubber crank and kent 234 and it will see 8500-9000 on a short basis without going bang.

dry sumped,little oil pressure at idle,65lb at 6000,13thou float on mains and big ends,fully radious'd crank and runs mobile 1 oil.

2 seasons racing and shellsd still have that new mat finish.

[2litreScapri]

It's all a choice if you want to keep a car completely old skool or a mix of old & new. If I hadn't bought a Capri as my daily I would have been looking at an Anglia/Cortina/100e but would have had to have either full or semi resto, and definitely Zetec for reliability. If I buy one now as a 3rd car so I'd stick with X-Flow, simply for old skool tunability

[oliwally]

The only thing with modern engines is they are not any more reliable than an old one.

Broke 3 OHC 1600 vauxhalls in 4 months

Broke 1 honda D16A9 after 6 months owning it

worn camshaft out on a BMW M30 engine.

Raged the shit out of a 1600 pinto and it never left me down,even after several miss gear changes,same as the 2000 i had.

3 xflows and same thing,only had problems with the points on the last one.

my zetec had new valves,new cambelt and tensioner twice,first replacement plastic one cracked and was about to break.

also had a set of hydraulic tappets too,it did have 69,000 0n the clock,which was its second time.

the thing with the motor trade is this,back in the 50's-60's when these cars were still on the A3 drawing papers,cars were a big deal and they were made to be easy to repair and last a certain lenth of time.

the dealers made money on the servicing and repairs while ford and others made money on the replacement parts.

since the early 90's they shifted,making more money on cars and less on parts,building life exspectancys into serious componants.

cars today are not ment to last more then 10 years.

Its a chuck-a-way thing now the car,why do you think every one still using belts for their engines fits plastic tensioners? for will give you 80/100/150,000 miles on the belt and only 1 year for a tensioner.

and if they EU have their way i will be testing airbag dates and warnings from 2011,have you tried to get a new airbag for a 1994 fiesta??

modern cars are rubbish today,engines are not as powerful generally speaking than anything that came before.

Modern engines are less reliable than anything from the 60's/70's and a damn sight more exspensive to fix or tune