anti-dive kits

[BIG G]

well ive certainly learned something from this one!

 

maybe the ARB on a standard escort is already straight? or straighter than a capri one!

 

i have noticed that everyone who has an escort says they dont do nothing, everyone with a capri says they do? surely that means they work on a capri as the capri needs an anti dive kit more than an escort does!

 

 

could well be the case

[marky4]

mine works very well

[BIG G]

Yours would

[marky4]

Yours would

 

[evil knievel]

What a great debate

 

very true been very insightfal

 

apart from all the name calling

 

Agreed but funny though

 

I don't know Mr Cake but I do know BIG G and he was just being himself, i.e straight to the point. A nicer guy does not exist but I'm sure Mr Cake will see that for himself in time

 

I've met 'Mr Cake' briefly and chatted to him on here a lot. Very nice guy. Out of a debate enviroment im sure him and BIG G will get on a treat

 

Now, I don't really know much about suspension geometry, but I tried the pen thing and it helped me understand.

 

If I'm running a 1.6 Pinto'd Capri on 16x7J's, what poundage springs would i use to lower it nicely? I dont want to induce understeer or anything

[NeilT]

What a great debate

 

very true been very insightfal

 

apart from all the name calling

 

Agreed but funny though

 

I don't know Mr Cake but I do know BIG G and he was just being himself, i.e straight to the point. A nicer guy does not exist but I'm sure Mr Cake will see that for himself in time

 

it was damm funny

 

i asked for honest opions and thats wot i got cheers to every one

im sure there both top blocks they just both stick to there guns and there is nought wrong with that

[NeilT]

well ive certainly learned something from this one!

 

maybe the ARB on a standard escort is already straight? or straighter than a capri one!

 

i have noticed that everyone who has an escort says they dont do nothing, everyone with a capri says they do? surely that means they work on a capri as the capri needs an anti dive kit more than an escort does!

 

 

thats prity much the cocnclusion i have come too

[BIG G]

Cheers Smoke um...... looking into that date youve sent me as life with baby is hectic

 

As for vibro bun i'll give him a big kiss when i meet him

[Messenjah]

Now, I don't really know much about suspension geometry, but I tried the pen thing and it helped me understand.

 

If I'm running a 1.6 Pinto'd Capri on 16x7J's, what poundage springs would i use to lower it nicely? I dont want to induce understeer or anything

 

i had 190lb -2" springs on my capri running 205/60 13 tyres

so if you were to have 205/40/16 tyres on your rims and ran on the same -2" springs it would have a stance at the front similar to my old one

 

 

depending how hard you want the ride you could go one stage harder on the springs.

 

 

also i had "2 blocks single leafs and gaz adjustable dampers ont he back found them to be very hard when set in the middle and had to soften them up a bit .

[evil knievel]

Thanks andrew. I think i'm going to opt for single leafs on the rear as well, but i am trying to avoid all these adjustable bits and bobs really. which i assume you could do? i know shit all about suspension, but 'there is no silly questions'. I've got a feeling im running 16ins on 205/50 16.. yep just checked. It would still have a nice stance like your old one i reckon, which has a lovely stance by the way!! didn't scrub at all did it?

[vibrating_Cake]

-1" 190lb springs as above =) evil, thats what i had on mine, sits the wheels nicely in the arches.

although i'd love -2" i think the wheels would get a little bit too close for comfort on the front arches, rear they would be fine ..

 

 

never had a problem

 

 

 

 

Cheers Smoke um...... looking into that date youve sent me as life with baby is hectic

 

As for vibro bun i'll give him a big kiss when i meet him

 

aww haha how cute =o) twas a fun argument lol

[mk2lewis]

Whats the opinion of getting rid of the anti roll bar altogether for compression struts?

On a mk2 escort track car.

[Messenjah]

Thanks andrew. I think i'm going to opt for single leafs on the rear as well, but i am trying to avoid all these adjustable bits and bobs really. which i assume you could do? i know shit all about suspension, but 'there is no silly questions'. I've got a feeling im running 16ins on 205/50 16.. yep just checked. It would still have a nice stance like your old one i reckon, which has a lovely stance by the way!! didn't scrub at all did it?

 

 

 

rears scrubbed but that was coz they were the wrong offset but i liked the way the looked they were sevens but had almost 4 n a half inches of dish

[bozie]

i had an anti-dive kit on my mk2 escort from day 1 so dont no how much it helped but the car dose handle very very good on road and track.

so im happy

[V8ian]

GARY PLEASE HELP!!!!!

 

Im confused here, especially where the bit lowering it to make it flatter, surely this happens when the car is lowered in the first place, fit an AntiDive kit and you lower the ARB in situ further than the flat position and then the suspension movement starts to alter again as the arc of the TCA decreases

From what I understand, the idea of it is to stop the front suspension deviating too much and rear wheels unloading under heavy braking , two things are done to acheive this, The ARB has a neutral mounting point normally where the car sits at normal ride height, and has very little load on the bushes thru the TCA, the first is to lower the ARB mountings on the chassis, this puts a preload into the suspension bushes, lower the car from stock ride height and you increase the Preload again, when you lower a mac stut car the camber usually increases as the angle of the TCA gets gets flatter as it swings in an arc, this puts a outward load on the ARB causing it to arch in the centre where its not supported, hence the second mod of the centre mount, cars with short TCAs ie capri/escort suffer from camber and toe changes more than somthing like a Mk2 cortina which has comaprativly long TCAs.

The antidive I believe is obtained by the Preload on the ARB going thru the TCA bush at a strange angle and bind up, I know the bushes last about 5 mins with a antidive kit fitted, this must also compromise the inner TCA bush at there is a high rotational force applied to the TCA

Fit Compression struts and the ability to run Antidive is not an option?? assuming the suspension movement is controled by the clevis bolted onto the TCA and a rose joint at the other end, and as such can not be pre loaded, Im fairly certain some early escorts were fitted with a comp strut from the factory,

Its a case of more castor and stiffer springs to reduce dive with this set up,??? then the downside of more castor is the heavy parking steering loads, more aggressive self centering steering but better high speed stability.

Personally I let the springs do the work of controling the suspension and the ARB do what its there for without creating excessive loads its not designed for,

[Retromotorsport]

Pictures paint a thousand words

 

 

[Retromotorsport]

Your also right about early Mk1's using comp struts, but the cars needed an anti-roll bar as the did do a 2cv around corners.

 

The problem with using comp struts on lowered cars the angle they are at, allready nearly horizontal, and apply weight transfer and the go past horizontal and the braking force pushes them back, reverse the pen thing and push it, on high rally cars, they can stop dive, on lowered cars they add to it, and can cause some massive camber changes.

To stop this, harder springs are fitted, and this can lead to slower lap times as the car is now too stiffly sprung.

 

When aftermarket comp struts are fitted, the fitter puts the car at ride height and holds the kit in place, because the arm swings the TCA forward they slide the chassis mount down the chassis leg, lowering the chassi pick-up as the TCA pick up goes up. So teh arms sit level. The chassis pick-ups should always be higher than the tca pick-up ..

 

Jon Edwards at Jems favours the comp strut, i'm a tension or arb man, but his comp struts are mounted on the horizontal section of the chassis leg, not on the slope like a rally cars.

[V8ian]

Still dosent explain the point that I was trying to get to about the way the ARB bushing is distorted going thru the must bind the suspension with a lowered car, and creating a rotational moment about the TCA and also a binding, I can see the point about the positioning of the ARB pivot point but with a lowered car, the effective position has allready been lowered in respect of where the ARB sits in relation to the TCA, I can see the castor and camber changes alter with the swing of the ARB and TCA and the flatter they both are to the ride postion the better, but what happens to the bushes at these extreme positions, I recently saw a all singing/dancing Lowered escort with witness marks on the TCA washers where thay had been hitting the TCAs. and we both agree, bind is not an option as it will create breakages, and does the average person who fits the kit make the needed castor/camber adjustment to get any advantage fron the mods

[Retromotorsport]

the twin cam arb has a different angle I belive, and really when your getting into the extremes of being that low the inner tca should be a rod end, i used to make TCA's with threaded bush so the twist wasnt a problem on the bush. But i can understand where your coming from about the twist, and thats even more when people want low ride heights and 15" or bigger wheels, as the hub height is higher off the ground.

 

On most road cars this isnt a proble with 100mm under the chassis rails and 132 wheels.

 

That tarmac car with the witness marks ..what diameter wheels was it running ?