whats hung parliment

[pauln]

well we got hung parliment

 

so what will gorden brown do now

 

will he resign or carry on

 

how long before we have a goverment again

 

in 1974 it was hung from feb to oct

 

If Gordon can do a deal with the Lib dems he could stay on, I reckon that could do damage to labours future electability though. I'm tempted to say let Cameron blunder along for 6 months while labour sorts it's leadership and then waste some more taxpayers money on another election in 6 months (which I believe is the earliest we can hold another one).

[Vista]

In my opinion...Conservative have won based on them having a higher figure ...why do they make it so confusing and drawn out ?

 

You are quite right the Conservatives have won the most seats but they have not won a majority (they can be outvoted on any bill they put foward). Winning and being able to govern is not the same thing.

I would disagree with Vistas comment that most of england came out in support of the Tories, only about 36% of the population who voted voted for them which of course means 64% of the people who voted do not want the Tories.

 

Ok, perhaps I should re-phrase. Most of the seats in England have been won by the conservatives, 297 to Labours 191. In what way of reckoning is that not a significant majority? 532 seats in England of which the conservatives hold 56%.....................but the vote is skewed by three other countries that have their own parliamentary systems.

 

It's also notable that most labour strongholds that they've held on to are inner city areas that are likely to contain the greatest concentrations of welfare cases with their hands out to the state for money

[pauln]

In my opinion...Conservative have won based on them having a higher figure ...why do they make it so confusing and drawn out ?

 

You are quite right the Conservatives have won the most seats but they have not won a majority (they can be outvoted on any bill they put foward). Winning and being able to govern is not the same thing.

I would disagree with Vistas comment that most of england came out in support of the Tories, only about 36% of the population who voted voted for them which of course means 64% of the people who voted do not want the Tories.

 

Ok, perhaps I should re-phrase. Most of the seats in England have been won by the conservatives, 297 to Labours 191. In what way of reckoning is that not a significant majority? 532 seats in England of which the conservatives hold 56%.....................but the vote is skewed by three other countries that have their own parliamentary systems.

 

It's also notable that most labour strongholds that they've held on to are inner city areas that are likely to contain the greatest concentrations of welfare cases with their hands out to the state for money

 

 

So you feel there is a good case for electoral reform? I think thats a bit of a low comment for you to suggest that citydwellers are welfare scrounging scumbags, I can tell you for a fact that there are plenty in the Tory controlled ward where I live.

[pauln]

Ahh found the figures now Vista. I see the tories got 39% of the votes cast (Labour 28% and Lib dems 24%) so in England over 60% of voters don't want the tories.

[Vista]

I didn't say I thought that all inner city dwellers are welfare scumbags, only that's where they are heavily concentrated. (In fact I don't think I mentioned scumbags at all)

 

Yes I think there's a case for electoral reform when a party that has been soundly beaten and led by a man who isn't up to the job has a chance of holding on to power. Especially when other UK countries that have their own parliamentary systems are influencing the results in England.

[Vista]

Ahh found the figures now Vista. I see the tories got 39% of the votes cast (Labour 28% and Lib dems 24%) so in England over 60% of voters don't want the tories.

 

I don't agree with 39%. Count the no of seats and do the maths. The conservatives won 56% of the English seats. Until any proportional representation system is implemented, that's what counts.

[pauln]

I didn't say I thought that all inner city dwellers are welfare scumbags, only that's where they are heavily concentrated. (In fact I don't think I mentioned scumbags at all)

 

Yes I think there's a case for electoral reform when a party that has been soundly beaten and led by a man who isn't up to the job has a chance of holding on to power. Especially when other UK countries that have their own parliamentary systems are influencing the results in England.

 

Sorry I withdraw the word scumbag.

[pauln]

Ahh found the figures now Vista. I see the tories got 39% of the votes cast (Labour 28% and Lib dems 24%) so in England over 60% of voters don't want the tories.

 

I don't agree with 39%. Count the no of seats and do the maths. The conservatives won 56% of the English seats. Until any proportional representation system is implemented, that's what counts.

 

Or change who votes to change the maths. I accept the result and just like you I don't think it's right. You want first past the post in England only and I want UK proportional representation, we will both have to live with it till things might change.

[Mr Sam]

This map paints a picture that worries me.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election ... efault.stm

 

Looking at it, MOST of England has come out in support of a Conservative government. But they've largely been held off by not gaining enough seats in Scotland, N.I. and Wales. Countries that all have their own parliaments / national assemblies. So, if there is to be electoral reform does it need to separate voting for the the four nations that make up the U.K. somehow?

 

EXACTLY!!!!!! so why have we got a fricking jock running our country cant he piss off back the other side of the boarder and run his own (not saying blair was any better)

 

but yes that also stands to reason how come scotland vote if they have there own seperate goverment

 

 

 

and at the same time it doesnt matter who's in power were still fooked

 

 

i call for riot

[pauln]

Try the proportional view on that map (nothing to do with proportional representation) it makes the constituencies the same size and gives a more accurate view of the seats.

[Vista]

Try the proportional view on that map (nothing to do with proportional representation) it makes the constituencies the same size and gives a more accurate view of the seats.

 

Still looks to be much more blue than red to me.

[pauln]

Try the proportional view on that map (nothing to do with proportional representation) it makes the constituencies the same size and gives a more accurate view of the seats.

 

Still looks to be much more blue than red to me.

 

I'm not arguing about the numerical result just saying that due to the size differences in rural and town constituencies the map you chose implies a better result for the tories than it really is.

[andy a]

If you look at the spread on the map the main reason Labour supporters are concentrated in the North is that there are a lot of people up there who still remember Thatchers reign and how she caned manufacturing, mining, steel etc etc.

 

On the subject of the inner cities vast urban areas have been drastically underfunded for years, education and opportunity play a major part in shaping childrens futures, if they see no chance to progress then they will in the majority settle for not a lot, its easy to say its up to them to better themselves, but it may not be so easy if your the one wearing the shoes, there are also vast tracts of the countryside where low incomes are rife, take a look at the Fens, agricultural wages and employers who now dont have to give formal contracts meaning in many cases no sick pay or holiday pay...

 

Proportional representation and the current system aside would it not be fairer under the present system for the 2 parties with the highest percentage of the vote, in this case Labour and the Conservatives, to form a coalition government, why should the Liberals with the smallest amount of votes of the major 3 have the right to dictate the next government?

 

As for the boundaries on the current wards they are largely unchanged since the Conservatives changed them to suit themselves the last time they were in power.

 

Perhaps some of the younger voters who think they have it tough right now would do well to have a look around the internet and dig out some info on the way things were in the late 70's and early 80's, no student loans, employers shutting down all over the place and if your parents couldn't fund you through college then the chances were that you would end up doing a youth training scheme, £27.50 a week for 2 years and no chance of a job at the end of it, roll on the Conservatives, an imminent VAT rise (the hidden costs to business will all be passed on to the customers), yet more VAT on fuel which will increase prices in the shops etc etc, what a joy

[Guest cortinamad-gonetoo]

i did the yts scheme 27.50 for first year and a whopping 29.50 for the second year

 

oh and out of that i had to pay for my 50 mile round trip bus fair to college and wait a week for it to be refunded

 

plus my mum asaked 15 a week rent so i was actually better off at school and doing my morning and evening paper round and sat sun morning in a taxi office answering the phone, no rent to pay and £28 a week plus tips and monthly bonus

 

those were the days

[mk3cokebottle]

in short does it all basically mean that goverments fooked ???

 

and that means were fooked

 

cos the last three pages has been like scrambled eggs to read lol

[Trevmk3]

If you look at the spread on the map the main reason Labour supporters are concentrated in the North is that there are a lot of people up there who still remember Thatchers reign and how she caned manufacturing, mining, steel etc etc.

 

 

started something that labour has carried on in fine form which pisses me right off as they only believe people work in offices (no offence to anybody who is office based )

[andy a]

The reason people dont work in manufacturing, steel or ship building now is because there isn't any, simple as

 

Would anybody like to discuss the fact that Scotland, often quoted as being a drain on England has been subsidising us over the last 30 years and how its £1.2 trillion oil and gas industry is currently servicing the interest repayments on the UK's £1.4 trillion national debt

[Vista]

The reason people dont work in manufacturing, steel or ship building now is because there isn't any, simple as

 

Yes there is, it just isn't here as it's cheaper to do it elsewhere and more productive as people don't go on strike because the queue is too long at the snack wagon . o.k. perhaps a slight exaggeration............but only slight.

 

We obviously aren't going to agree on the why's of the demise of the UK manufacturing / mining etc industry in the North. You think the conservatives and specifically Maggie put an end to it in the 80's and I think the unions did far worse damage in the 70's by making it non profitable and largely non productive. As the majority of them then were state funded industries, what other option was there? Why should the tax payer continually pay for non profitable organisations and companies? Much like it's doing again now with the enormous state funded sector that has increased exponentially under Labour.

 

At the moment we have to tax the earners to pay for the non earners. We currently have too many non earners that don't generate wealth for the nation demanding money from fewer earners.

[Guest cortinamad-gonetoo]

im only saying not having a go, but we had the dole when conservatives were in too not just labour?

 

this is one thing i get a bit touchy on because i dont work, im on incapacity mainly because i suffer badly from ocd (but other reasons too, but i dont think i should be made to feel im a sponger because i dont work, i dont like it when i hear people saying im living off earners tax

 

im pretty sure if every single person worked that we would still pay tax

 

plus if this country stopped employing foreigners and allowed more work options for disabled (ok im not disabled but couldnt hold down a full time job due to my ocd, well wouldnt get one theyd rather take on someone without any problems, if you interviewed me and i said yes i can do that etc BUT i need to beable tc etc ((my ocd rituals)) you would just bin me off) ((THATS A KNOWN FACT FROM MY EXPERIENCE))

[Vista]

Dave, no-one is having a pop at people who are genuinely unable to work for medical reasons ok?

 

But, there are plenty of people out there who simply won't work even though they can. For instance, I can think of a number of people in the area I grew up in in Scotland that haven't done a days work in their life since leaving school in the 1980's. Why should they go through life without lifting a finger, supported by the state and then given free state funded health care and and full state pensions in their old age? Whilst those that do spend their lives grafting will not get the same treatment re health care, instead being forced to sell their homes to pay for it and getting reduced state pensions if for any reason they have had a break in National insurance contributions in their working life.

 

Of course we would still pay tax if we had full employment. Tax funds more than just the welfare system but the share of the tax revenue it takes has spiralled out of control, as has the amount taken to fund non profit making state employment.

 

I don't know what the current unemployment statistics are, but let's say for the sake of argument it's 3 million. Well if there are 3 million people on benefits it will only be the minority of them like you that are legitimately unfit for work on medical grounds yes? So how come there are jobs available for immigrants to do in the first place if we have so many people here already that should be available to work?

[mexman123]

OCD...is that a 'disability' or a 'mental' health problem?

I thought OCD was an 'habitual' disorder, does that prevent you from working?

I suppose it depends on what the 'habit' is???

[andy a]

So how come there are jobs available for immigrants to do in the first place if we have so many people here already that should be available to work?

 

One of the biggest problems is training, or lack of it, in the area where I live there was/is a lot of agricultural work that a lot of the housewife's used to do while the kids were at school as a second income, not to fund luxuries but to contribute towards general household expenditure, the other main employment in the area is food production/canning, which is where a lot of the first earners worked, the vast majority of these jobs were taken away from the local workforce when the immigrants arrived, not through the fault of the local employees, but through the greed of gang masters and employers, who would work them on 14-16 hour shifts at a lower flat rate than the locals could afford to work for, housing them in static caravans out of town and giving them their wages in the bar on site on a Friday night so when they brought a drink they were getting their money back again, the whole practice was overlooked by the authorities as it suited them, which is where a lot of the racial tension came from.

 

I was at one point a shift manager in a local factory, and was told to reduce my shift levels from 230 staff (normally backed by 70 agency workers a night) down to 28 "core workers", migrant workers were then bused in from as far afield as Birmingham, the way I was told to do it was by bullying, harassing and generally making their lives as miserable as possible so they left, when I told them I wasn't willing to do that they terminated my contract and just did it themselves.

 

My following job was again shift manager at another firm, where the personnel manager ran an agency, employing eastern europeans, and the managing director owned a lot of property which was rented to her staff, within 12 months the same thing happened, a meeting was called and again I was told to reduce my shift to nothing by any means, now either I'm unlucky or there was a lot of it going on at the time, I suspect the later...

 

So now locally there is a situation where jobs are advertised in shop windows and papers in Russian, Latvian etc, not in English, theres high unemployment among the local population and theres no way forward for them, the answer from above it would appear is to push them onto incapacity benefit to remove them from the unemployment figures and thats where they stay, and your not just talking unskilled workers, your talking all trades...

 

So basically when unemployment happens and the education systems in pieces because a teacher is trying to teach 30 kids from 9 nationalities it is the fault of government, if you offer the people a way out and the chance of self respect the majority will take it, at that point those left behind need a kick up the rs, but to label people in certain geographic areas as spongers is a bit past being fair...

[Guest cortinamad-gonetoo]

OCD...is that a 'disability' or a 'mental' health problem?

I thought OCD was an 'habitual' disorder, does that prevent you from working?

I suppose it depends on what the 'habit' is???

 

no it wouldnt actually prevent me from working(as i said earlier, the employer would just rather take on the next person without any problems)

 

thats part of the point i was trying to make

 

as most of you know i do everything to my car myself so no im not unable to do things, just need to do it with my own contitions ( i cant really explain it)

 

but there would be more opportunities for such as me and those worse off than me if this countrie didnt employ foreigners as stated earlier they will work for less money and more hours because thats better for them then what they would earn back home