after reading retro ford

[Guest MK1gaz]

Well let's just say that there won't be many ( more like none !!!!! ) 280 bhp 2 litre duratecs in an old escort this century . For a 2 litre reving it's tits off at 9500 rpm to hit that "peak" power level then you WILL need a mortgage to hold it together for 5 mins !!!!! Get the dyno plot up on here so i can have a look if possible please chaps , only when i've seen it can i comment on it's power + torque levels (That's if you can believe traders dyno plots for engine packages ) . P.S. There's a few 190 ibls ft pintos about for much less money than a £10,000 duratec engine

[Guest MK1gaz]

Here's a few little things too remember if anyones doing an S2000 engine transplant for an oldskool ford . STANDARD power is listed at 240 bhp ( and don't forget this is still a 2 litre ) and is with the FULL emissions crap still attached to it !!!!!!!! The standard S2000s exhaust with the 2 pipes exiting with one either side is very poor , you can expect a nice power hike once this is chucked out . At high rpm the standard e.c.u adds lots of fuel to "save" the engine from warranty claims etc . This overfuelling will knock off a chunk of power that you will claw back with a decent re-map . The standard air box itself is good but the pipe work is restrictive , owners replace this with a large piece of plastic pipe and lose a few plastic restrictions inside for another power gain . So a STANDARD 2 litre S2000 motor with a good exhaust , a remap and airbox mods will be knocking on the door of around 280 bhp or about the same as a £10,000 duratec install !!!!!!!!

[Retromotorsport]

So a STANDARD 2 litre S2000 motor with a good exhaust , a remap and airbox mods will be knocking on the door of around 280 bhp or about the same as a £10,000 duratec install !!!!!!!!

 

 

or about the same as a£10,000 NA YB (which weighs more)

 

 

See same shit different toilet.

[Guest MK1gaz]

So a STANDARD 2 litre S2000 motor with a good exhaust , a remap and airbox mods will be knocking on the door of around 280 bhp or about the same as a £10,000 duratec install !!!!!!!!

 

 

or about the same as a£10,000 NA YB (which weighs more)

 

 

See same shit different toilet.

Yes BUT even a £5000 230 bhp N.A. YB WILL BE just as fast or faster in the real world , and it fits straight in an Escort using cheap standard ford parts It's the way to go

[Retromotorsport]

Yes BUT even a £5000 230 bhp N.A. YB WILL BE just as fast or faster in the real world , and it fits straight in an Escort using cheap standard ford parts It's the way to go

 

So is that all a 230 Yb costs... 5K ..

 

and for that we get what with it

 

I mean as has been shown for that money you get dry sumps, clutch,steel flywheel, TBs and Ecus on the Duratecs

 

then a bellhousing 200.. a water rail 200 and some mounts 70 ..

[Retromotorsport]

Mark... 20k for a mounty engine ..

 

250bhp Mountune Ford Duratec HE engine Ref: DI4250

This 250bhp engine package provides an excellent lightweight race, rally, hillclimb, sprint or Kit car engine. The conversion is fitted to a brand new base engine. (Alternatively, a customer can supply their own base unit) The price shown includes all electronics, labour, dyno test and new base engine. Detailed specifications are available from Mountune Sales.

 

 

 

Price: £11,600.00 (Excluding: VAT at 17.5%, delivery and shipping)

 

 

ok its not 300bhp ... but thats a brand new engine , not a thrashed S2000 Honda.

[Guest MK1gaz]

Yes BUT even a £5000 230 bhp N.A. YB WILL BE just as fast or faster in the real world , and it fits straight in an Escort using cheap standard ford parts It's the way to go

 

So is that all a 230 Yb costs... 5K ..

 

and for that we get what with it

 

I mean as has been shown for that money you get dry sumps, clutch,steel flywheel, TBs and Ecus on the Duratecs

 

then a bellhousing 200.. a water rail 200 and some mounts 70 ..

That's whats so good about a 230 bhp N.A YB cossie install ( it fits straight in using your original pinto bits ) you don't need throttle bodies , ecu's , fuel injection systems , mapping costs , dry sumps , water rails , bell housing conversions , special engine mounts , lowered steering rack x-members , alternater recolation kits , etc , etc blah , blah , blah that a duratec install requires . Plus It's got a STEEL crank + rods as standard , oooooh happy days

[emu]

Id just give up if I were you retro , I think that trying to get Gaz to understand someone elses opinion is like preaching to the unconvertable.....

 

Until that is, he decides one day to fit a duratec (because the on-going development has made the costs good and the performance better) and then it'll be the mutts nutts, the best engine ford have ever used, cant be beaten!

[Retromotorsport]

Yes BUT even a £5000 230 bhp N.A. YB WILL BE just as fast or faster in the real world , and it fits straight in an Escort using cheap standard ford parts It's the way to go

 

So is that all a 230 Yb costs... 5K ..

 

and for that we get what with it

 

I mean as has been shown for that money you get dry sumps, clutch,steel flywheel, TBs and Ecus on the Duratecs

 

then a bellhousing 200.. a water rail 200 and some mounts 70 ..

That's whats so good about a 230 bhp N.A YB cossie install ( it fits straight in using your original pinto bits ) you don't need throttle bodies , ecu's , fuel injection systems , mapping costs , dry sumps , water rails , bell housing conversions , special engine mounts , lowered steering rack x-members , alternater recolation kits , etc , etc blah , blah , blah that a duratec install requires . Plus It's got a STEEL crank + rods as standard , oooooh happy days

 

So for 5k you have an engine that will loose oil pressure at the first corner you come to on a race track !!!!!!

 

Dont forget Gaz, some escorts out there grip

[Retromotorsport]

Oh and another point.. why havnt you stuck carbs on you YB...

 

Yes it came with the engine, but as you have stated before, to get the best out of an engine when expl,oring their limits..and ECU and TB's help..

 

So what do you get with that 230 horse YB.. the clutch, the carbs ??? come on.. mouth where ya money is.. you keep saying this and that.. wheres the price lists

 

 

And sorry peeps to keep droning on.. but untill Gaz stops saying that a Duratec cost 10K to fit and run..i'll keep answering with the truth.

[Guest MK1gaz]

Whilst doing some duratec research today i have some info for anyone whos after a 2 litre duratec oldskool ford conversion . The very nice chaps at S.B.D do a few packages for this engine ( as mentioned by retro in this thread ) so i thought i'd check them out for you . First is get an engine from a scrap motor or buy a brand new one . Then if you want to be able to overtake a x-flow in a race then you need a few grands worth of bits bolted to it !!!!!!!! First kit is throttle bodies , ecu + wiring loom ( not fitted ) = £2232.50 . Then there's a +15 bhp kit which consists of the above throttle bodies etc + 2 cams ( not fitted ) = £2702.50 . Then theres another kit with bigger cams etc for more power , these require the original pistons machined to take the extra valve lift , this is £350 more than the last kit mentioned ( £3000 ) + fitting + machine work to the pistons etc . If stripping the standard engine to machine the standard pistons you may want to uprate the engine at the same time as lets just say it's not the strongest bottem end in the world !!!!!! ( plus when tuning this engine for extra power you NEED to rev the tits off it ). Steel rods £752 , forged pistons £421 , uprated big end bearings £88 , Head stud kit £136 , Your need a flywheel too as the standard dual mass one is shite so £213 . I asked about the sumps and a dry sump is recomended At approx £1100 or you could use a wet sump at £363 but i'm not sure if these fit an escort etc only caterham 7 wannabees . The above engine upgrade bits won't add any power but WILL make it last more than 5 mins + allow further tuning mods later if required ( even bigger lift race cams , more compression , higher rpm etc etc ) . Don't forget on top of these prices is the dreaded install costs as mentioned in my earlier post , plus countless other costs for lots of expensive bits and bobs .

[Twinkle]

gaz m8 you forget the cheapest mod out there

 

a lot of money saved on your £10,000

[Gareth]

And all this started cuz Twink was in 2 minds about which engine to use....

[Retromotorsport]

So adding all that up gaz and we end up with the 6K that Mark mentione and 290bhp... yeah i like that engine

[Twinkle]

And all this started cuz Twink was in 2 minds about which engine to use....

 

dont blame me

[over_head_cam]

And all this started cuz Twink was in 2 minds about which engine to use....

 

dont blame me

 

Fookin trouble maker

[Jay_harrier]

I've been following this thread with interest & it comes down to 2 things really, how much you want to spend & the bias you have.

 

I personally don't like Duratecs as I think they're overated, it's a modern engine for sure but designed in the modern era without the safety margins of old built in. To get sizable power gains with reliability you have to replace a large proportion of the inernal components, where with a YB you don't.

 

The only reason you have to spend sums of money on a N/A YB is to make it work outside of the original design criteria.

 

Given the choice of a Duratec or the Honda is a tough one, the Ford/Mazda lump has plenty of parts available for the conversion but an S2000 is out of the crate power & the standard internals hold together to 350 brake reliably. Honda have never had an S2000 engine blow up through component failure...

 

I work with a guy who runs a supercharged S2000 making 370 brake on standard parts, it's run like this for 4 months & he drives it like he stole it.

 

Yuk at Yukspeed is building an S2000 powered MK2 & he reckons it'll cost about 4k for the conversion, that includes one off bellhousings & dry sump pans.

 

There is no right or wrong choice, I prefer to keep it in the Ford family & for this reason I'll probably do a YB or a Warrior pinto. A BDG is the ultimate for me but keeping it running would be outrageous, something not yet mentioned.

 

If I were to step away from the Ford options then I'd consider Japanese but would have to weigh this up against the availability of parts for an XE. For competition it's no use having one off rocking horse parts incase you break it.

[Jay_harrier]

And all this started cuz Twink was in 2 minds about which engine to use....

 

dont blame me

 

So Twink, has this cleared it up for you?

[Twinkle]

And all this started cuz Twink was in 2 minds about which engine to use....

 

dont blame me

 

So Twink, has this cleared it up for you?

 

i only wanted a rough cost of going cossie turbo

[Jay_harrier]

I only wanted a rough cost of going cossie turbo

 

Did you get it?

[Guest MK1gaz]

So adding all that up gaz and we end up with the 6K that Mark mentione and 290bhp... yeah i like that engine

The costs i listed ARE NOT for a 290 bhp 2 litre duratec . This would need a massive investment as almost EVERY part would need replacing . The duratec in full monty trim is a nice engine but it's no better than any other 2 litre twin cam 16v 4 pot with big money spent on it . If using a standardish engine install then XE's , S2000's , etc SHOULD be chosen ahead of duratecs for sure . If you've got pots of cash to splash then it's more complicated because all the engines are almost at the same build cost BUT some fit easy and cheaper than others . At the end of the day i personally agree with what Jay Harrier just wrote "duratecs are overated" and this i'm affraid is spot on .

[Guest MK1gaz]

And all this started cuz Twink was in 2 minds about which engine to use....

 

dont blame me

 

So Twink, has this cleared it up for you?

 

i only wanted a rough cost of going cossie turbo

Well your question did get a bit sidelined twink but never the less it's been interesting this thread . I have upmost respect for retromotorsport , he's a very nice fella but he has been brainwashed by the "traders" and the duratec media hype . P.S. cosworth turbo installs done properly are expensive , ask all the fellas with good ones !!!!!!

[DarrenM]

As has been said anybody can fit what they want in their car, but, as Gaz says, price up EVERYTHING 1st to install. Then add the costs to get to the power you require and take into consideration future tuning options.

 

Something that is important to me in my OSF is an OSF engine so it's a Crossflow and a Pinto in my MK1 Escorts, but these are just fun cars and wont do many miles.

 

If I need more power then a YB seems the most at home in an OSF and 2-700 BHP should satisfy most people!

[steve mk2]

im quite happy with my 1.3 xflow to be honest 80+ miles to 10quid of fuel.

 

wen i get my upgrade itl be defo a 1700 x-flow sucking on 40's gota keep it oldskool you cant beat the sound of a screaming crosflow. (going past at 20mph)

[Retromotorsport]

But Gaz.... you still havnt priced up a good pinto or Na YB yet... you've thrown a few prices around but with no proof.

 

you have said that a 197 Duratec is going cost 5k and then another 5 k to get working in a car... but we all know thats wrong.

 

Yes its 5k for the engine, one with a drysump so you can happily go round corners at a track day without dropping oil pressure, and an ECU and TB's so it has good driveablilty throughout the rev range.

So we have a complete Duratec engine, complete as in everything bolted to it except the exhaust , and to that you need to add fuel lines and oil lines.. and a dry sump tank. £500 tops

 

So with the engine price at 4k (the one i posted ages ago) and that above. A TLE exhaust is £500 we have your 5k.

 

To fit it in the car ...

 

Water rail 200

engine mounts 75

bell housing .. 200-300 tops (dont forget that engine comes with the clutch)

perhaps an upgrade on the rad.

(as Retroford has shown, you do not need to cut the car or x-member to fit a 2000cc Duratec)

 

i'm trying to think what else to fit it thats going to cost £4425 ???

 

 

If anyones bored out there today, can they price this lot up ... from advertised price lists with links if you can.

 

A 2000cc 190bhp Pinto

to include

 

block

head

cam

TB's &ECU........)

.......................} you can substitute these for a modded dizzy, leecy ign and baffled sump.

Dry sump kit....)

Exhaust

steel flywheel

HD clutch

and the parts to fit it where your x-flow was

Mounts

Ally bellhousing (i know you dont need it, but evetone fits one)

 

 

Thats a like for like engine.. a true comparsion, both 2000cc and both above 190bhp *(duratec being 197 and sealed ECU for a championship)

And being honest 190 is a very good 2000cc pinto.. Darran Moss's 2.1 (or is it 2.2) is 211 at HT's and T&R's

 

 

theres todays challenge..

 

 

 

 

* championship engines that are sealed units are run on dynos that some may say read low, but others say are accurate, ie they will match car manufactures engine dynos. The reason for this is if you take it anywhere else and you get 220 from your sealed 200bhp engine you will keep quiet, but if you get 190... you'll scream and rant and stamp your feet.

Ths is why major car manufactures use certain dyno's for car engines, you get your 150bhp Ford Puma and put it on certain dynos and it will make 150, put it on others and you'll get 160 .. your happy. If it reads below 150.. well you know you would complain.