Trumpets or ram pipes?

[steve dray]

One for the engine tuners,

 

Whats best to use on dcoe's trumpets or ram pipes?

 

I've got full radius ram pipes on mine which I origionally fitted when the engine was in a kit car due to lack of space, but I also have some trumpets which I can now use. Whats best with regards to airflow?

 

Thanks

[escort21]

Think the longer the trumpets the better....air has less turbulence in it as it enters the carb or something....

[Fiesta Steve]

Giving the room in my engine bay i'd go for the longest pipes with the largest radius.

 

 

I think the theory's suggest that the desired size won't fit in any engine bay so go as long as possible.

[105Speed]

I had standard 50mm trumpets on my 45's and the car made 177bhp, ditched them in favour of a set of Titan Motorsport Billet Trumpets and the car made 180.6

 

That was a cheap 3.6bhp and it moved my peak power from 6500 to 6950rpm so with a little more work on the carbs to account for this change I may have seen a little more.

 

 

The trumpets were designed using test data from Cosworth Racing's F1 testing and this was used to get the ideal radius on the mouth and then the ideal taper.

 

 

On Duratecs people are seeing nearly a 10bhp increase from these trumpets

[X-pack-Glyn]

ditched them in favour of a set of Titan Motorsport Billet Trumpets and the car made 180.6

 

what about the modded trumpet at the back

[105Speed]

That has been carefully modified to combine performance with practicallity..

 

It was either the trumpet or the shell.... and the trumpet bought it.

[Vista]

I had standard 50mm trumpets on my 45's and the car made 177bhp, ditched them in favour of a set of Titan Motorsport Billet Trumpets and the car made 180.6

 

That was a cheap 3.6bhp and it moved my peak power from 6500 to 6950rpm so with a little more work on the carbs to account for this change I may have seen a little more.

 

 

The trumpets were designed using test data from Cosworth Racing's F1 testing and this was used to get the ideal radius on the mouth and then the ideal taper

 

On Duratecs people are seeing nearly a 10bhp increase from these trumpets

 

They look very similar to the ones I have on mine, though mine haven't been nicely anodised like that

 

 

[steve dray]

Cool, thanks guys, I think the trumpets I have are the ones that came with the carbs when new, they are a lot longer than the ram pipes I have fitted at the mo, I think I can just squeeze them in !

I'm away for the week next week, but i'll fit them the week after and let you know the results!!

 

Thanks again for the advice

[w p e]

been proven that short pipes are better for bottom to mid range power by myself along with dave walker on a flow bench and rolling road. this test was in the C.C.C magerzine years ago

[Guest MK1gaz]

My mate dyno tested lots of different trumpet sizes / different lengths etc on his car and they all made about the same top end power but just shifted the lower rpm power about a bit but not much . The 3 bhp power gains etc are just the dyno recording different numbers at different times due to temp changes etc . You'll get these differences weither you've touched the engine or not if re-testing an engine at half hour intervals etc

[105Speed]

My mate dyno tested lots of different trumpet sizes / different lengths etc on his car and they all made about the same top end power but just shifted the lower rpm power about a bit but not much . The 3 bhp power gains etc are just the dyno recording different numbers at different times due to temp changes etc . You'll get these differences weither you've touched the engine or not if re-testing an engine at half hour intervals etc

 

 

I'll be sure to let Cosworth Racing know your findings Gaz... I'm sure they could have saved themselves days of testing.... and pots of cash...

 

 

 

Sorry lads... you havent got the design right its just down to the weather..... you didnt need to employ all those propeller heads... just Bill Giles.. he could have told you what power you were going to make.... apparently, nothing to do with trumpet length.. just if cows are lying down you will make more power....

[Guest MK1gaz]

Well you can carry on trying to get an extra 2 bhp at 3000 rpm if you like but it won't make any difference because you'll never notice it !!!!!!! Ring cosworths and ask them

[Retromotorsport]

again Gaz goes on about power... and quotes BHP ..

 

The biggest gains on changing trumpet length is in the torque figures.

 

Hence the BMW 2002 that had the trumpets out the bonnet.

And that was after a few hours with grahams car on Wobbly Walkers dyno.

 

But that said .... and it hurts to say it, but he is right.

 

Your ArseDyno wont notice 2-5bhp difference on the road... a track maybe allow the stopwatches to show the difference.

 

Dropping the oil down to the min mark in a bog standard Pinto is good for 1 bhp !!!!

[J_mk1]

Hmm i find there are lots of little debates like this in the tungin industry!

 

eg, porting job. some people will say the smoother the finish the better as the air will flow faster into the combustion chambers.

 

whilst others will say that a rough finish is more beinfitial due to the vibration to rough finish cuases the air to 'vibrate' slightly and hence mix with the petrol better.

 

basicaly you could argue points like this all day

[105Speed]

What is very difficult to argue is a dyno run, get a power & torque figure, then a run 10 mins later with a change made and new figure obtained.

 

These are just facts.

 

 

And if you want to start all this shenanigans then you could say... well I messed with the timing a degree and got a few bhp... but my arse wouldnt notice it so why did I bother..... I wont try another degree because I'm really not going to notice that extra little bit more power either...

 

 

Tuning is all about getting the best out of something be it suspension, chassis or engine tuning. Lots of little things add up to a big thing.

 

 

On its own there is absolutely no point in Andy Harris drilling his top mounts so they resemble a tea strainer but as part of a much bigger picture these tiny mods all help.

 

 

 

You've got to buy trumpets anyway... you may as well buy some that will give you more power and aid the air flow into the engine rather than some that wont.

 

Oh and they look cool as funk too