DYNO RESULTS

[Retromotorsport]

My mistake, i was going by the old figures Darran had posted .. totally forgot that he had been to Peters recently ...

 

But with all this said, i'll still go back to what still stands .. it dosnt matter what the power figures read, as long as you go in and have a run, and come out after some tweeking with a better graph (note graph not figure) becuase the BHP number is just that a number, its whats under the graph that counts.

 

Theres been a lot of talk about Gaz being a few BHP down on his engine, but we havnt seen a graph .. that old figure might have been obtained at the cost of torque lower down .. it may have been a case of ...

 

nothing .. nothing .. nothing .. nothing 8000rpm and bang..theres the power.

 

A higher BHP figure... but a slower overall car

 

As Gaz has said.. he'll strap and thrash the car on all the local rollers.. perhaps after that, just add the figures and divide by the numbers of rollers used, we then have a South East average

[boXXer]

As Gaz has said.. he'll strap and thrash the car on all the local rollers.. perhaps after that, just add the figures and divide by the numbers of rollers used, we then have a South East average

 

watch this space bud!

[MK2Ed]

that old figure might have been obtained at the cost of torque lower down .. it may have been a case of ...

 

nothing .. nothing .. nothing .. nothing 8000rpm and bang..theres the power.

 

A fair point ...

[Guest MK1gaz]

My engine hit 212 bhp with 170ibls feet of torque (180 bhp at the wheels ) on Chris' tight fisted dyno last time and the engine builder reckons it will still be 250 bhp at most other places . Once all the cam swinging , mapping , teething problems and bits breaking off are sorted i'll stick it on them all and find out . Should be interesting

[Guest MK1gaz]

Marky4's been on a few different dyno days i think . I missed his on saturday because i went out looking for starter motor no4 so perhaps he can tell us how much his recorded and what dynos it's been on please .

[marky4]

Marky4's been on a few different dyno days i think . I missed his on saturday because i went out looking for starter motor no4 so perhaps he can tell us how much his recorded and what dynos it's been on please .

 

yes i have been on a couple of dyno's, when i brought my car it came with a dyno readout from LPS in ipswich which was very much simular to Track & Road and i felt this was about right.

 

LPS Ipswich - 144bhp / 136 lbs of torque. (2005)

Track & Raod - 143.5bhp132.6 lbs of torque. (2006)

Sanspeed - 161bhp (sept. 2007)

TOTD - 137.8bhp / 130lbs of torque.

 

the first 3 where done at peak revs of 6600 but at TOTD my rev limiter was set at 6000 / 6200 so around 140bhp is i believe about right and sanspeeds figue i always thought was to high

[Guest MK1gaz]

I had my old pinto on a few = southern carbs + injection 187 bhp , sanspeed 185 bhp , power engineering 175 bhp , then 2 other out of tune running like a sack of shite ones with 156 bhp at track n road and 158 bhp again at southern carbs + injection

[chris@torque of the devil]

Marky4's been on a few different dyno days i think . I missed his on saturday because i went out looking for starter motor no4 so perhaps he can tell us how much his recorded and what dynos it's been on please .

 

yes i have been on a couple of dyno's, when i brought my car it came with a dyno readout from LPS in ipswich which was very much simular to Track & Road and i felt this was about right.

 

LPS Ipswich - 144bhp / 136 lbs of torque. (2005)

Track & Raod - 143.5bhp132.6 lbs of torque. (2006)

Sanspeed - 161bhp (sept. 2007)

TOTD - 137.8bhp / 130lbs of torque.

 

the first 3 where done at peak revs of 6600 but at TOTD my rev limiter was set at 6000 / 6200 so around 140bhp is i believe about right and sanspeeds figue i always thought was to high

 

Yikes, Sanspeeds dyno flatters somewhat doesnt it

[w p e]

SO whos is right then or most consistent gaz i think we need heads up YOU and MICK to compare these two similar engines dyno"d at different places. then MINE when back in & running

[kevmk2]

SO whos is right then or most consistent gaz i think we need heads up YOU and MICK to compare these two similar engines dyno"d at different places. then MINE when back in & running

 

Can they wait that long for your car

[w p e]

SO whos is right then or most consistent gaz i think we need heads up YOU and MICK to compare these two similar engines dyno"d at different places. then MINE when back in & running

 

Can they wait that long for your car

soon kev soon

[Col-ashtonmobile]

hurry up then

[Guest MK1gaz]

SO whos is right then or most consistent gaz

Tricky question really , i think they're all consistent but just give different numbers to each other . My mates cars all have similar spec x-flow + pinto engines and all run side by side in a drag race and all give similar numbers on the same dynos to each other . It seems that trusting any device that records power is pretty fruitless unless you're talking about the same device each time . Also it depends on the accurate setting up before each power test because it's very easy to cock up a few things and get a larger or smaller figuire . As for which one is right then fooooook knows , best go on all of them i reckon !!!!!!!!

[Toby]

Hate to say it but I recon Sanspeeds is high, and having done some reading, sums etc, I recon TOTD is pretty close. If it is low it aint by much!

 

Peak power is, as the thread seems to be leading is not the be all and end all. Drivability, throttle response and speed to time / speed to distance are the only things (out side of the pub) that matters!

 

Pub chat about having about 200hp is going to have to stop, but the 12.6 1/4 has yet to be diss-proved!!

 

Maybe that's only 1/5 of a mile!!

[Vulcan Engineering]

I have kept out of this so far but I do find it all very interesting reading but I would like to set a few things straight.

 

A Engine Dyno is used so that you can get a accurate reading straight from the flywheel & so you can set the Engine up safely & run the Engine in safely in a controlled environment watching oil & water temps & fuel mixture up & down the rev range with ever increasing & decreasing loads with out having to watch the road & little old ladies in there fiestas when running the Engine in.

 

A Rolling road is used to optimise the Engines performance in the car as the Exhaust backpressure & the distance between the inner wing & the ram pipes & the amount of heat under the bonnet all make a difference.

 

As long as when you put the car on the rollers & do a run at the end you can see a improvement then the numbers don’t really matter it’s the graph & how the car dives that is the important part, I personally like a Engine to give the most usable Torque as possible instead of the final HP Number.

 

When I Dyno our engine on HT Racings Dyno I always optimise the Engine & cam timing to give the best torque curve, OK it might sacrifice a few HP @ the top end but you will gain a much more usable torque curve, you always go through peak torque to get to max HP.

 

So the moral of this is if you are happy with one set of rollers then stick to them they are then your bench mark,& then if you make changes to carbs or exhaust or head or cam you can see what differance it has made.

Dont just go to differant rollers because your mate got high numbers from a differant set of rollers

[razersedge]

the biggest point is power to weight ratio it doesn't mater if you lost 20bhp or 30bhp,because power to weight ratio is what maters,

this is not accurate figures because its plastic and i dont care

lets just say

evo 8 top model 400 bhp with a driver it weighs 1.5 tons

so thats 266.6bhp per ton (and some serious turbo lag)

 

evo 8 normal model 280bhp with a driver still weigh's 1.5 tons

so thats 186.6 per ton (poverty pack)

 

drivers car 360bhp so lets say it weighs 3/4's of a ton thats 480bhp per ton

even if it weigh's a ton thats still 360bhp per ton

 

gaz mk1's car 212bhp lets say 4/5's of a ton so thats 265bhp per ton

 

and these figures are the ones that count because we don't have the weight they have and these are the ones that mean we can kick the plastics arses on the roads ok we don't have the top end or the 4wd but i don't know about you lot but it's the getting there that and the trying that does it for me

[chris@torque of the devil]

I have kept out of this so far but I do find it all very interesting reading but I would like to set a few things straight.

 

A Engine Dyno is used so that you can get a accurate reading straight from the flywheel & so you can set the Engine up safely & run the Engine in safely in a controlled environment watching oil & water temps & fuel mixture up & down the rev range with ever increasing & decreasing loads with out having to watch the road & little old ladies in there fiestas when running the Engine in.

 

A Rolling road is used to optimise the Engines performance in the car as the Exhaust backpressure & the distance between the inner wing & the ram pipes & the amount of heat under the bonnet all make a difference.

 

As long as when you put the car on the rollers & do a run at the end you can see a improvement then the numbers don’t really matter it’s the graph & how the car dives that is the important part, I personally like a Engine to give the most usable Torque as possible instead of the final HP Number.

 

When I Dyno our engine on HT Racings Dyno I always optimise the Engine & cam timing to give the best torque curve, OK it might sacrifice a few HP @ the top end but you will gain a much more usable torque curve, you always go through peak torque to get to max HP.

 

So the moral of this is if you are happy with one set of rollers then stick to them they are then your bench mark,& then if you make changes to carbs or exhaust or head or cam you can see what differance it has made.

Dont just go to differant rollers because your mate got high numbers from a differant set of rollers

 

 

well said Steve, people certainly dont come to me for high figures, but i would like to think they are among the most accurate available, if i suspect them to be wrong i will be calling dyno dynamics - its still in warranty!!!!

[boXXer]

to be honest though, All dynos i have ever seen have been very consistant in the readings they give. I.e, they do not fluctuate between runs that much. but, personally for me, its finding a chassis dyno thats as close to a engine dyno as possible, so you KNOW what power your making, not some made up figure.

 

i KNOW what power my engine makes on a dyno, at Steve did vids of it when it was being setup. Thats the main thing.

[Retromotorsport]

 

 

well said Steve, people certainly dont come to me for high figures, but i would like to think they are among the most accurate available, if i suspect them to be wrong i will be calling dyno dynamics - its still in warranty!!!!

 

 

Chris, just some info you may find helpfull .. and before anyone chips in, i'm saying this as a reference, as i'm one of the people that dosn't care about the numbers .. untill someone BS's

 

HT's dyno reads within 0.5 % of T&R's chassis dyno, so do their engine dynos.. and the 5 engine Dyno's at Roush are within 0.5 % of each other and agree with the Dyno's at T&R and HT's +/- 1% ... thats 9 dyno's

[kevmk2]

SO whos is right then or most consistent gaz i think we need heads up YOU and MICK to compare these two similar engines dyno"d at different places. then MINE when back in & running

 

Can they wait that long for your car

soon kev soon

 

I do hope so,i want your car out before we do the chelsea thing,gotta hear it coming across the bridge again,just hope your exhaust is quieter than it used to be

[Guest MK1gaz]

I personally like a Engine to give the most usable Torque as possible instead of the final HP Number.

 

When I Dyno our engine on HT Racings Dyno I always optimise the Engine & cam timing to give the best torque curve, OK it might sacrifice a few HP @ the top end but you will gain a much more usable torque curve, you always go through peak torque to get to max HP.

Well said mate , ain't that the truth

[Guest MK1gaz]

the biggest point is power to weight ratio it doesn't mater if you lost 20bhp or 30bhp,because power to weight ratio is what maters,

this is not accurate figures because its plastic and i dont care

lets just say

evo 8 top model 400 bhp with a driver it weighs 1.5 tons

so thats 266.6bhp per ton (and some serious turbo lag)

 

evo 8 normal model 280bhp with a driver still weigh's 1.5 tons

so thats 186.6 per ton (poverty pack)

 

drivers car 360bhp so lets say it weighs 3/4's of a ton thats 480bhp per ton

even if it weigh's a ton thats still 360bhp per ton

 

gaz mk1's car 212bhp lets say 4/5's of a ton so thats 265bhp per ton

 

and these figures are the ones that count because we don't have the weight they have and these are the ones that mean we can kick the plastics arses on the roads ok we don't have the top end or the 4wd but i don't know about you lot but it's the getting there that and the trying that does it for me

Good point mate but don't forget that it's power at the wheels that REALLY counts and what upsets the apple cart on those calculations . A 4WD rally special will kiss goodbye to ANOTHER 100+ bhp from it's fancy diffs and extra cogs to turn compared to an oldskoolford simple lightweight transmission . Mines got 180 bhp at the wheels so loses only 32 bhp through it's gears so it's power to weght ratio at the wheels will be better than most turbo 4wd plastic rally specials

[Retromotorsport]

A 4WD rally special will kiss goodbye to ANOTHER 100+ bhp from it's fancy diffs and extra cogs to turn

 

Gaz you cant really say "100+" bhp" ... it has to be a percentage .. an no " + " .. whats a plus .. with your + after every figure you say.. you may as well say you have 1+bhp you'll always be right then

 

take a 1000bhp 4x4 ... it looses 100bhp

take a 150 bhp 4x4 .. it looses 100bhp

 

dont think so

 

Your car loses 17.77777 % of its power through the trans .. which is good .. very good.. i normally calculate it at around 20% trans losses .. as a ballpark fig for a RWD car.

[Toby]

 

Your car loses 17.77777 % of its power through the trans .. which is good .. very good.. i normally calculate it at around 20% trans losses .. as a ballpark fig for a RWD car.

 

What makes you say 17.77% is his loss? That, from my understanding of how this road works is a pre-determined figure calculated by the manufacturer of the road in their experience of rear wheel drive cars in 3rd gear.

 

There is, as Chris rightly pointed out on the day, no way of knowing what the trans' losses really are, even the over run method works off the forces taken to turn the diff, if you like, backwards by the road.

 

Chris may correct me on this because he was showing me how the road accounted for various engines and FWD or RWD set ups and used different pre-determined figures. One thing thats had me wondering though is why the number of cylinders would come into the equation. I can understand there is more friction in a 6 or 8 cylinder engine, but cant understand how that affects flywheel HP or Wheel HP

 

I can see why it was so expensive - all the scientists it took to design it!!

[boXXer]

have a looky here chaps

 

http://www.oldskoolford.co.uk/phpBB2/vi ... hp?t=62047