sambo Posted December 4, 2008 Report Posted December 4, 2008 Right, i have been offered 3 engines. 1) 250 BHP N/A Cosworth. Built by Jondel, on Jevey's etc. This is REALLY expensive. £5000 and i will need to buy a sump and ex manifold. Not to mention sorting my fuel tank for injection etc. 2) 330 BHP stage 3 cosworth turbo. This is going for £2500. I will also need to sort my tank out for injection and also get a T5 gearbox, intercooler etc. 3) Parajohn has a stage 2 cossie turbo for sale with a box for £2350. I would love the N/A as i love the noise and mainly its the fact that a N/A lump is just RIGHT for my '69 mk1 escort. BUT, 5K is too much money!! I can get it, but getting the other bits to get it running will take it to around 6K all in !!!! The turbo engine is half the price for alot more HP !! but the noises arent as good !! Whats the thoughts peeps and i'll surprise you when i get one!!!
mk1super Posted December 4, 2008 Report Posted December 4, 2008 Turbo seems the best option cheaper with more power available, also you will have cash laid up if theres any woes, you go n/a and it goes bang then your gonna be too skint to fix it that make sense
5hane Posted December 4, 2008 Report Posted December 4, 2008 what happened about the 2.6 pinto im not sure, the stage 3 engine could proably tuned for more bhp with a bigger turbo? but the stage 2 one comes with the gearbox i think you should find the average for a box, and find the diffrence, then figure out howmuch to bring the stage 2 to stage 3, if theres not much diffrence go for the stage 2 and build it up (all new parts then ) but it depends how much bhp you want i guess ?
sambo Posted December 4, 2008 Author Report Posted December 4, 2008 What really makes the decision hard is looking at the 0-60 times from the retro ford and classic ford thrashes recently.. The N/A cars were much quicker!! most of them were quicker to 100 too!!! I know that the gearing is shorter for the N/A cars but i have a 4.6 diff fitted, if i go turbo, that will need to be changed!!! Decisions, decisions!!!!! Argggggg!! The 2.6 pinto was TOO much money!! 4.5K for just the short block assembly!!
garyv6100e Posted December 4, 2008 Report Posted December 4, 2008 If Money is not to much of an issue go for the N/A but otherwise go for the one from parajohn and trouser the change for any future probs with the turbo motor
stephens_xpack Posted December 4, 2008 Report Posted December 4, 2008 Yes the last one sounds like a fair deal. 5K is a lot of cash for an engine that you still need to add to. Depends on how much money you are prepared to spend on nice noises?
DEP Posted December 4, 2008 Report Posted December 4, 2008 I d go for option 2 or 3, but then again i m bias By the way, what were the times for the N/A cars at the recent thrashes?
sambo Posted December 4, 2008 Author Report Posted December 4, 2008 yeah, but it will go very well too!! 240-250bhp N/A.... It is a low mileage lump too that is owned by some old boy who had it in his kit car!! i think turbo is the sensible way to go as i can afford to pay some debts off rather than getting deeper into debt! I may be able to go back to 13" wheels if i go for the cheaper option! Hmmm... old skool engine and modern wheels, or old skool wheels and a modern(er) engine??? I have never been so torn in all my life!!!
5hane Posted December 4, 2008 Report Posted December 4, 2008 yeah, but it will go very well too!! 240-250bhp N/A.... It is a low mileage lump too that is owned by some old boy who had it in his kit car!! are you sure you havent made your mind up already? i think you want the na, so go for it (if you can afford it )
sambo Posted December 4, 2008 Author Report Posted December 4, 2008 I cant really, it will involve borrow from me old man. Who i already owe money to!!! Bless the old fella though, always on hand to cater for my osf needs! I would really love the N/A but i just cant justify spending that kind of money on JUST an engine!! I sold my old car for that!!! I think YBT is the route i have to take! Not such a bad thing!!
countrybumpkin Posted December 4, 2008 Report Posted December 4, 2008 if you can afford it without worrys go with what you really want, if i was in yor situation i'd buy parajohn's cossy get it all fitted and running then as time and money allowed get all the parts to rebuid it into a N/A cossy
escort greg Posted December 4, 2008 Report Posted December 4, 2008 TURBO...TURBO....TURBO is the only way to go
Fiesta Steve Posted December 4, 2008 Report Posted December 4, 2008 The turbo is half the price, but thats because it'll be half as quick as the 250 bho N/A A decent Crossflow will keep with the 330 bhp turbo
Pipster007 Posted December 4, 2008 Report Posted December 4, 2008 I cant really, it will involve borrow from me old man. Who i already owe money to!!! Buy Jon's engine and box and also pay you Dad back with the leftover You could always ask him for the cash back again if anything happens further on down the line
Copey Posted December 4, 2008 Report Posted December 4, 2008 if you cant aford atmo then why is it the equation? dont buy what you cant afford!!!
PIG Posted December 4, 2008 Report Posted December 4, 2008 turbo motor off jon,the power in a stage to will be plenty until you get used to it and it should be reliable,decent wide tyres and handling and you will dust the crossflows my friend
vibrating_Cake Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 tbh i'd go for a small turbo'ed motor, not silly power, but a bloody long powerband (yes) POWERBAND i'd much rather have 120bhp from 2000rpm going upto 220bhp@6250rpm than a screamer with 270bhp @ 9000rpm with peak torque at 5250 rpm! yeh sacrificing 50bhp but itd be much nicer!!! and a foook load more reliable. also!!!! with the lower boost coming in for longer, itd be less stressful on the engine too. also, something i was planning was a supercharged zetec/duratec. i could easily get 220bhp N/A from the motor i got now, but i could also stick at ~200bhp that i have now... but i'd be "faster" with the supercharger, even if im restricting the peak bhp to ~200bhp. compared to the 220bhp N/A think WRC cars, restricted to 300BHP but..... work it out, they have near enough 600lbft of torque i.e. peak torque is ~ 2626rpm...... and wrc cars of today lap stages faster than the old group B cars so... spend enough money on the engine, and enough money on the suspension, not too much not too little.... ohhhh im a geek
MexDan Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 think WRC cars, restricted to 300BHP but..... work it out, they have near enough 600lbft of torque i.e. peak torque is ~ 2626rpm...... and wrc cars of today lap stages faster than the old group B cars so... spend enough money on the engine, and enough money on the suspension, not too much not too little.... The engine performace of WRC cars has alot to do with the anti lag systems and turbo charger responsivness so it basically responds like a NA engine.. I'm no expert on turbo engines in the cars the guys have on the site but I guess that without alot of money spent they will not respond like that!! The old group B cars were the golden age of rallying and IMO the WRC is pretty boring in comparison, saying that the modern WRC cars can only just beat a group B car round some tracks is testement to that.. the group B cars were quicker round some tracks than F1 cars of the time!! I would go NA mate.. I know its more expensive BUT it is what you want. If you were happy with a turbo you would have bought one of the above by now and not keep dwelling on the NA.. Save a bit longer and by the engine you really want.. it'll be worth it in the end
w p e Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 5k for a second hand atmo. now you can see why the price for a new one is a bit more. follow your heart sam FACT you need 40% more HP from a turbo yb to match a atmo type engine. good luck with what ever you decide
Retromotorsport Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 turbo motor off jon,the power in a stage to will be plenty until you get used to it and it should be reliable,decent wide tyres and handling and you will dust the crossflows my friend Is that why Craig Rainer was only 0.7 seconds a lap faster than Andy's 1600cc x-flow round brands on his old wheels, Craigs only 10" wide wheels, 3k of Rieger dampers and 400 odd bhp And at Lyden Hill, he couldnt lap Andy after doing a 20lap race, Andy was about half a lap behind him, and Lyden is Andys bogey circuit, needs different diff ratio for there. beat him, yes.. dusted.. nawww not really
richie_stix Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 whats wrong with a 2.3 na duratec?... (i know it's not an option) but it still is a 16v atmo that can be 230 easy screamer!
sambo Posted December 5, 2008 Author Report Posted December 5, 2008 whats wrong with a 2.3 na duratec?... (i know it's not an option) but it still is a 16v atmo that can be 230 easy screamer! Too damn expensive mate! To get good power, you need to spend a fortune and then you need all the conversion parts etc. I have spoke with SBD and it is not cheap mate!! I havent heard back from the atmo engine guy today, i dont think he liked my last offer !!!
Mk 1 Mark Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 whats wrong with a 2.3 na duratec?... (i know it's not an option) but it still is a 16v atmo that can be 230 easy screamer! Too damn expensive mate! To get good power, you need to spend a fortune and then you need all the conversion parts etc. I have spoke with SBD and it is not cheap mate!! I havent heard back from the atmo engine guy today, i dont think he liked my last offer !!! Get wayne to build you a nice new one!!! Supply crank and rods... Block and head..And let the man do his stuff!!! Wayne will supply the pistons and cams And its all fresh and new and ready for what you need and want
richie_stix Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 i know where your comming from though sambo... all that woosh tish bizzle seems bit silly to me... what about supercharging.... sorry, goin away from your narrowed down choices but hey ho!
sambo Posted December 5, 2008 Author Report Posted December 5, 2008 whats wrong with a 2.3 na duratec?... (i know it's not an option) but it still is a 16v atmo that can be 230 easy screamer! Too damn expensive mate! To get good power, you need to spend a fortune and then you need all the conversion parts etc. I have spoke with SBD and it is not cheap mate!! I havent heard back from the atmo engine guy today, i dont think he liked my last offer !!! Get wayne to build you a nice new one!!! Supply crank and rods... Block and head..And let the man do his stuff!!! Wayne will supply the pistons and cams And its all fresh and new and ready for what you need and want I still cant afford it Mark. The T/B'd engine is now out of my reach as he wants more for it. Git. I cant afford to supply a base engine and then get it made for N/A, as much as i would like a wigger lump cos he is the man! and a top bloke. I recently bought a head from a guy on TS. It arrived with a chunk taken out of the face cos the twat didnt pack it properly. That wasted some of my budget I am gonna get a turbo engine tonight. Stage 3, 330bhp. Not 100% what i want but spending 5K+ on an engine seems a bit daft when there was a redundancy at work today! I need to be a bit sensible and the turbo is much, much cheaper.
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