Differening view on Tyre sizes and spring rates.

[Rally Pack 2000]

I have been going back a number of years through the threads here regarding the choice of tyre sizes for their Escorts the favoured in the UK seems to be 185/60 13s. and 175/60 13s. I have seen photos and these sizes are stretched over some pretty wide rims to the extent they remind me of bike tyres the way they arch over from one side to the other. Here in Australia though we seem to do the opposite in that we fit as wider rubber as we can that the rim and sidewalls allow. For example for the past 25 years I have traditionally gone for 205/60 13s on my 6in rims. This size being perfectly in keeping with the 175/70 13s that the cars came with and as such without compromising speedo readings. I was just curious for the reasonings behind the different tyre approach whether it be the great wet conditions on the UK or just a culture preference. I was looking for a new set of good tyres for some 13in rims which there isnt much on offer here in Australia these days although you can get Advan 048s but not that good in the wet. Someone suggested a strange idea in getting Avon CR28 Sport which is meant as a wet weather track tyre but would make a good road tyre due to its conventional tread pattern but for road use wont be subjected to excessive heat in the dry and as such have a reasonable life. These tyres happen to come in two sizes, the one you guys love in the UK 185/60 13 and also the ones I and alot of my fellow Escort owing friends have used here the 205/60 13. So I thought I would start a discussion on the merits and disadvantages of both.

 

As an additional topic I also noticed the UK guys fit extremely hard springs. I thought 190s were hard in my Escort making me feel the chassis must be taking some kind of toll. But I have seen some of you guys put on 250 to 300 lbs without the blink of an eye on cars lowered 3 ins with tyres so low profile my fan belt is thicker. I wonder how you do it? Your roads but must be superb in comparison to ours? Off Freeways ours are pretty poor and if you want a nice country drive expect some dirt roads at some point in the journey. I was thinking of going down to 170s -1in next time but that seems like cotton wool after reading these pages lol Could this be because you only get a few months a year drive out of your cars because of your harsh Winters while as a all year daily driver heavy springs are more noticeable for me? Would be very interested to hear everyones views. Thanks

[Mexico*mad]

South London look mate, you wouldn't get it.

[emu]

Ive always assumed your roads tend to be quite long, open and straight?? Whereas, we can't go 100 metres without someone sticking a sharp bend in the road to avoid a tree or a rambler.

 

Stiffer suspension is generally regarded as 'better' on twisty roads, whereas its just annoying  for highway/ motorway use. I imagine the preference for taller tyre profiles probably comes from the added suspension effect too. Especially given, as you say, that you can easily end up driving on dirt roads. The only time we end up on dirt tracks is driving across a show ground. Like you say, you'd be wrecking your cars and your fillings driving any distance on the sort of suspension we will live with.

 

Personally I'm using 185/60s with 275lb springs, I was worried that going from 175lb it would feel like the suspension had seized, but its fine. The roads round here obviously arent as shocking as I thought they were

[Rally Pack 2000]

Ive always assumed your roads tend to be quite long, open and straight?? Whereas, we can't go 100 metres without someone sticking a sharp bend in the road to avoid a tree or a rambler.

 

Stiffer suspension is generally regarded as 'better' on twisty roads, whereas its just annoying  for highway/ motorway use. I imagine the preference for taller tyre profiles probably comes from the added suspension effect too. Especially given, as you say, that you can easily end up driving on dirt roads. The only time we end up on dirt tracks is driving across a show ground. Like you say, you'd be wrecking your cars and your fillings driving any distance on the sort of suspension we will live with.

 

Personally I'm using 185/60s with 275lb springs, I was worried that going from 175lb it would feel like the suspension had seized, but its fine. The roads round here obviously arent as shocking as I thought they were

LOL thats a bit of a myth of our own making spread by making too many lonely highway Mad Max Wolf creek type horror movies lol The reality is apart from highway interstate roads most of ours are pretty short and twisty. When i watch American TV and the house numbers are in the ten thousand I think its the USA that must have the long straight roads. Regardless the roads arent good I suppose we have a similar population to the UK if not less and a land mass 20 times greater so our petrol taxes  to build roads have to go 20 times further than yours, not to mention you guys have even more expensive petrol than we have and I wouldnt have though that possible. 275 springs that does sound pretty hard I couldnt imagine what it would be like. Maybe I am being a wimp and should stick to 190lbs at least. I would like the chassis to last though as I plan on leaving it to someone in my will rather than selling it. My Twincam I will probably sell though as it deserves a better home.

[Fiesta Steve]

I use 350lb in my fiesta, it's no probs, an I live in the sticks and drive on bumpy back lanes. There seems to be no ill effects to the chassis. Racers use 1000lb springs on the fezzers although the tracks are smooth!

[texr2000]

i think the main reason for 2-3" drop and 175/50 tyres is for looks, and its become part of the OSF scene. the ride on mine is pretty hard but as the whole suspension could do with a freshen up i wouldnt want to comment about springs rates etc. 

 

stiffer spring rates dont always mean harder ride though, on my Caterham the front spings are 300 odd lbs (cant remember exact spec) which was a good 100lbs more than old ones and is rides better than it did before, and on track is a lot flatter through the bends, and looking at pics from older track days to the newer ones is quite a big change.

[Rally Pack 2000]

i think the main reason for 2-3" drop and 175/50 tyres is for looks, and its become part of the OSF scene. the ride on mine is pretty hard but as the whole suspension could do with a freshen up i wouldnt want to comment about springs rates etc. 

 

stiffer spring rates dont always mean harder ride though, on my Caterham the front spings are 300 odd lbs (cant remember exact spec) which was a good 100lbs more than old ones and is rides better than it did before, and on track is a lot flatter through the bends, and looking at pics from older track days to the newer ones is quite a big change.

I agree it certainly gives them a great look, your 1300 looks meaner than my Twincam and it has 205/60 13s on it! lol

[texr2000]

when i saw escorts is Auz and NZ it seems they all follow a different style to we do over here. The 'South London Look' clean body work 13x7 with 175/50 rubber 2" drop is quite popular look to follow. Ones i saw down under had 15" wheels and one had a body kit.

 

A twin cam is a little different, over here they are more factory look due to them being a lot rarer, lotus steels and 185/60 rubber look good on it tho.... 175/50 wouldnt look right unless its dropped a little.

[Rally Pack 2000]

when i saw escorts is Auz and NZ it seems they all follow a different style to we do over here. The 'South London Look' clean body work 13x7 with 175/50 rubber 2" drop is quite popular look to follow. Ones i saw down under had 15" wheels and one had a body kit.

 

A twin cam is a little different, over here they are more factory look due to them being a lot rarer, lotus steels and 185/60 rubber look good on it tho.... 175/50 wouldnt look right unless its dropped a little.

There was a bit of a 15in craze with the dablers but the die hard long term Escort owners stuck with 13in its just they dont go trying to get themselves in fast four magazines. Both mine are still 13s and every friend I had that own escorts and there were 8 of us never bothered with anything other than 13s as well. I am tempted to try 185/60 13s on my Mk2 Im just concerned they will look tiny in the arches as Its not practical to lower cars as much as you guys do. 3in lowered wouldnt even get over the hump in my driveway! With 205/60s on the Twincam though you could never take a passenger in the rear without it riding on the tyres, not that it happened very often but it does highlight how tight it is. On the Mk2 at the rear there is no problems but at the front it just rubs on the front spoiler on full lock.

[Vista]

i think the main reason for 2-3" drop and 175/50 tyres is for looks

 

Mariah Carey looks great (even at 43) but would you want to live with her on a daily basis? 

 

It often appears to me that many people are lead down the rubber band tyre route without realising (until it's too late) the consequences they have on the car's final drive ratio. Personally I prefer a larger diameter wheel to get skinny rubber on without affecting the rolling radius too much. These are 40 profile.

 

I think my Springs are 300lb front and 200lb rear but with the adjustable rebound rate on the struts, they don't give a harsh ride at all.

 

 

[SmokeEm]

I on the other hand have gone for a 90mm drop AND 50 series tyres... Fook the ride, fook the practicality, it just looks right. That is all

[Rally Pack 2000]

So has anyone tried using a set of Avon CR28 Sports as their regular road tyre? Or is that just too crazy an idea?

[texr2000]

http://www.avonmotorsport.com/historic/road-legal/cr28-sport

 

They dont look to mad for the road, what makes you think they are crazy for the road? i use Avon CR500 tyres on my mk1 but also had Yokohama A048 on it untill i needed them for another car

[Vista]

+1 on the CR500s. See above for 245/40/15s

[Rally Pack 2000]

http://www.avonmotorsport.com/historic/road-legal/cr28-sport

 

They dont look to mad for the road, what makes you think they are crazy for the road? i use Avon CR500 tyres on my mk1 but also had Yokohama A048 on it untill i needed them for another car

I think they are meant as a wet weather track day tyre more than anything else? On a hot day in the dry would they go to mush? lol

[texr2000]

would think normal road tyres be better than them. if you drive in dry weather would recommend yoko A048's if they are available over there (they are standard fit some high power Lotus Elise/Exige), on track they are brilliant and never had much of a issue with them on the road, just not the best in the wet. 185/60/13 and 205/60/13 available. 

[texr2000]

+1 on the CR500s. See above for 245/40/15s

I am a fan of the 175/55/13 CR500 and the fact they are 55 profile not 50 helps with things. Pretty good wet tyre but on track found the Yoko better. Avon's are also a tad more expensive than the Yoko's.

 

The only other tyres i know thats 13" and would fit OSF's is the Toyo R888 185/60/13 205/60/13 or Avon ZZR 185/55/13, i do like the fact they just dont look legal

 

http://www.avonmotorsport.com/road-legal/performance/zzr

 

http://www.toyo.co.uk/tire/pattern/proxes-r888

 

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/competition-tyres/yokohama-advan-a048-r-tyre

[Rally Pack 2000]

would think normal road tyres be better than them. if you drive in dry weather would recommend yoko A048's if they are available over there (they are standard fit some high power Lotus Elise/Exige), on track they are brilliant and never had much of a issue with them on the road, just not the best in the wet. 185/60/13 and 205/60/13 available. 

Yes we do get the A048s here but I have never tried them myself. I have a set of one of their ancestors still on the Twincam, they are 008R's and they are shocking in wet it was quite scary. I didnt mind so much as that car doesnt get driven that much and only in the wet if  i get caught out. It clocks up so little miles that the 008Rs still have legal tread although Im surprised they still grip at their age well past their use by date. For the other car though I did definitely want something reasonable in the wet if needs be and the CR28s had the reputation for that. The trouble here in Australia is we have shocking chinese crap tyres at one end of the scale and then at the other end these super soft track day tyres but nothing in between. Our tyre sellers have strange sales technique that they dont like you to specify a tyre, they prefer to tell you what they want to sell you with no other options and get stroppy if you ask for a choice of alternatives. They lie through their teeth telling you its the only tyre available in the size I want, claiming they have access to every brand, when another dealer offered something different just 10 mins earlier. Its really off putting. I generally just get annoyed and give up. I did enquire about the Toyos once and the importer said they didnt bring in that size and proceeded to try sell me 15in rims assuring me that was the only way as 13in tyres wouldnt be available after a few years. that was a few years ago now. I guess I liked the  conventional tyre look of the CR28s the others did tend to be a bold claim the car was for racing when its just an standard old thing. The CR500s being 55 profile though was interesting as the 205/60 13s Yokohamas I have on it at the moment (A539s???) just rub on the front spoiler at full lock and that slightly lower profile may do the trick. You guys seem spoilt for tyre choices there it seems.

[texr2000]

i have only ever driven my caterham with A048's in the wet, its hard to say how bad they are as i didnt try not to slide it about haha then again dont take alot even in the dry. Neither the Caterham or the Escort are used in the wet unless it happens to rain while im out so wouldnt be worried about fitting them.

 

In 13" i wouldn't say we have lots of choice over here, most are road legal track stuff, but thats going to be how it is as 13" wheels are no longer used and only seem to be made by the specialist tyre brands. but we also have a few specialist cars like caterham, classics, hillclimbs and other track based stuff that still uses 13" wheels.

 

I buy tyres online then pay a fitter to fit them saves speaking to the shops about tyre options as they couldnt order them at a price to match online.

 

Maybe 185/60/13 would be a good size to go with, over here i would say that size is about the only other size people use on 13" wheels if not the rubber band 175/50/13. Also on a standard night car would fill the arch nice

[Vista]

I still use 175/70/13s on my mk1 RS. No rubber bands for me

[texr2000]

I still use 175/70/13s on my mk1 RS. No rubber bands for me

i knew as soon as i typed that someone would say they use something other than 185/60/13 and 175/50/13. your size must be getting limited in brands and availability? 

[Vista]

I don't think so, try entering the size into blackcircles.com and plenty of options will come up I'm sure. It's what they came with as an option with the RS alloys and I've always been happy with the look and feel of them so see no reason to change.

[texr2000]

i am surprised! more than i expected and good selection of brands, i suppose was a size later used on 13" steel wheeled runabouts for there to be such a good selection

[Rally Pack 2000]

I still use 175/70/13s on my mk1 RS. No rubber bands for me

This was the size that was on my car when I bought it. It still had its original Pirelli Centurato CN36. So I have always tried to get wider tyres that work out the same diameter to maintain speedo readings like 205/60 13s.

 

I rang the Avon Motorsport importer yesterday and enquired about the CR500s and the CR28 Sports. He actually didnt recommend the CR500s for my 6in rims and said they were very large for their profile and meant to stretch over much wider rims min of 7 and better on 8s. The CR28s however were very small for their profile suited to 6in rims with the 205/60 13s. the Avon website says as much, Its odd to see a 205/60r13 tyre being recommended for 6in rims normally most say its a bit of a squeeze with a loss in performance as a result. The guy also recommended the CR6ZZ tyre. The have a very traditional 60/70s tread pattern on them meant for classic car racing and that they would get more "road miles" out of them than the others. Bizarrely they may a 185/70r13 with the same diameter as the 175/70r13 in the same tyre. I found this really odd! they are very very expensive though even more so than the others.

[texr2000]

I find it odd that Avon them self say that when they designed the CR500 tyre for the Caterham R500 (hence the name) and that ran them on 6" wheels on the front and had 205/55/13 on the 8" rears. Due to the stiff sidewalls i found they didnt fit 7" very well and are perfect for 6"  *EDIT* rereading your post i assume u mean the 205 Cr500 they didnt recommend for 6 Rims

 

6Inch is 152mm so i find it odd to fit 205mm tyres

 

175/55/13 CR500 vs Cheap 185/60/13 both on 6" wheels