pnwrs2000 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 Hi, I'm interested to know people's opinions about the drivetrain set up that would be best for my mk2 escort. It'll be a fast road type spec car with an English axle probably with a 4.4 diff and a 5 speed (type 9 ?) gearbox and probably powered by a breathed on 1600 xflow. The questions I've got are: - which LSD unit is best ? which half shafts are best ? Is there a certain type of one piece prop that is best or are they all the same ? is a type 9 five speed the best way to go and if so, what quick shift kit is best to go with it ? Cheers in advance
Admin Vista Posted February 16, 2015 Admin Report Posted February 16, 2015 You've asked so many different questions in one go that you'll probably get loads of different answers. Mine are: - For me, plate type LSD but you'll also get many people favoring the ATB helical type Half shafts, pass. But I've yet to have a problem with the standard ones, depends how much grip you have and what you plan to do with the car One piece props are one piece props. The difference is in who makes them, how strong the components are and how well they're put together. Type 9 5 speed is a cost effective way to a 5 speed box and has made its way into many different classic cars of all marques. They're not as strong as some other options (the T5 box for instance) but equally they're not as weak as many of their detractors would have you believe. Neither is the first gear ratio issue as big a problem as you might read on some forums. You'll read that the 1st gear ratio is crap, and that the old four speed type E box had much better ratios. Investigate the facts though and it turns out that in fact the 2.0 type 9 and type E box had almost identical ratios from 1st to 4th. Just one point, I think a 4.44:1 CWP is very very low ratio for fast road use. Even with a type 9 and especially if you plan to use 175/50/13 tyres
Danish Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 For me, plate type LSD but you'll also get many people favoring the ATB helical type For me, ATB helical type but you'll also get many people favoring the plate type LSD For the quickshift you can get a complete lever from £30-£100 depending on how much rattle you can put up with. Or there are on-line guides to adapt the pivot point of the standard lever.
khanlad Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 I was recommended to get a atb diff for road use, went it with a 3j plate one in my head but was told they were a bit cluncky compared, not done millions of miles but its quiet and you wouldnt really know its there! As vista said i wouldnt think a 1600 x flow would do too much damage to standard shafts unless you have 10 inch slicks and drop the clutch at 7000 rpm everytime you pull off!! Again the 4.4 diff would probably only give you about 100 mph, be quick away but not very pleasant on a motorway, thats something to think about?
The Transplanter Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 Once upon a time a plated LSD was the only choice! I have never used an ATB on a RWD but have on FWDs and they are excellent with zero maintainence and zero noise, so would probably now try an ATB. But if you want it for burn outs or drifting then the LSD will be the better choice I would say. I agree a 4.4 is not really suitable for road use and better suited for rally or short circuit point & squirt. Years ago 3.77s were the choice along with 3.54s but with a 5sp type nine and a higher revving xflow then I think a 3.89 or 4.1 would work well. And same for the shafts, a N/A xflow shouldnt worry std shafts at all
BigBubba Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 Quaife ATB, standard shafts, 4.1:1 diff and you'll get away with the 4 speed if your a B road blaster. If you're doing a lot of A road stuff then get a 5 speed type 9, but they're not quite as straight forward to fit on a x flow i'm told. I ran a 4 speed with a 4.1:1 on a 170hp Pinto and it was fine on the rural lanes, but did get a bit nippy at 60/70 mph
pnwrs2000 Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Posted February 17, 2015 You've asked so many different questions in one go that you'll probably get loads of different answers. Mine are: - For me, plate type LSD but you'll also get many people favoring the ATB helical type Half shafts, pass. But I've yet to have a problem with the standard ones, depends how much grip you have and what you plan to do with the car One piece props are one piece props. The difference is in who makes them, how strong the components are and how well they're put together. Type 9 5 speed is a cost effective way to a 5 speed box and has made its way into many different classic cars of all marques. They're not as strong as some other options (the T5 box for instance) but equally they're not as weak as many of their detractors would have you believe. Neither is the first gear ratio issue as big a problem as you might read on some forums. You'll read that the 1st gear ratio is crap, and that the old four speed type E box had much better ratios. Investigate the facts though and it turns out that in fact the 2.0 type 9 and type E box had almost identical ratios from 1st to 4th. Just one point, I think a 4.44:1 CWP is very very low ratio for fast road use. Even with a type 9 and especially if you plan to use 175/50/13 tyres Cheers Vista. I'll be using the car as a B road fun car so was thinking that 100mph top speed would be about right as I wanted plenty of squirt out of the twisty stuff. Is there a formula / chart / graph that would tell me the optimum diff ratio for that speed with either a 5 speed type 9 or 4 speed box along with the obligatory 175/50's combo ? For me, ATB helical type but you'll also get many people favoring the plate type LSD For the quickshift you can get a complete lever from £30-£100 depending on how much rattle you can put up with. Or there are on-line guides to adapt the pivot point of the standard lever. Cheers Danish. Sounds like a really good quick shift isn't going to break the bank then. Do you know of any types you could recommend or have heard good reviews ? I was recommended to get a atb diff for road use, went it with a 3j plate one in my head but was told they were a bit cluncky compared, not done millions of miles but its quiet and you wouldnt really know its there! As vista said i wouldnt think a 1600 x flow would do too much damage to standard shafts unless you have 10 inch slicks and drop the clutch at 7000 rpm everytime you pull off!! Again the 4.4 diff would probably only give you about 100 mph, be quick away but not very pleasant on a motorway, thats something to think about? Cheers khanlad. No 10" slicks for me I'm afraid Which atb diff are you running ? Once upon a time a plated LSD was the only choice! I have never used an ATB on a RWD but have on FWDs and they are excellent with zero maintainence and zero noise, so would probably now try an ATB. But if you want it for burn outs or drifting then the LSD will be the better choice I would say. I agree a 4.4 is not really suitable for road use and better suited for rally or short circuit point & squirt. Years ago 3.77s were the choice along with 3.54s but with a 5sp type nine and a higher revving xflow then I think a 3.89 or 4.1 would work well. And same for the shafts, a N/A xflow shouldnt worry std shafts at all 4.1's seem to be easier to get ahold of. Is there much top speed difference from a 4.4 to a 4.1 ? Quaife ATB, standard shafts, 4.1:1 diff and you'll get away with the 4 speed if your a B road blaster. If you're doing a lot of A road stuff then get a 5 speed type 9, but they're not quite as straight forward to fit on a x flow i'm told. I ran a 4 speed with a 4.1:1 on a 170hp Pinto and it was fine on the rural lanes, but did get a bit nippy at 60/70 mph Cheers BigBubba, that sounds like a good all round set up for what I'm after I think
Danish Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 Cheers Danish. Sounds like a really good quick shift isn't going to break the bank then. Do you know of any types you could recommend or have heard good reviews ? I bought one for about £40 off ebay (I know, I know...) it does the job nicely, but it vibrates at about 3500rpm. Bzzz....bzzz....bzzz.... after a while it starts to bug me. Someone said there was a Quaife version for £100 but I look at this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quaife-Type9-5-Speed-Gearbox-Gear-Lever-Stick-R-Jointed-/230600155893?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item35b0d722f5 and it looks just the same as this £40 one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-MK2-Escort-Gp4-Rally-Car-5-speed-Quickshift-Gearlever-/131432544894
khanlad Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 Ive got a quaife one, 3j two piece half shsfts
khanlad Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 I ran a 4.1 cwp a good few years ago with a 2 litre pinto and 5 speed box, even then it was a real ball ache, yeah i was a bit brisker accelerating, but just not nice for every day stuff, it would drive me mad now, im 44, still 18 in my head!
The Transplanter Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 If you tell me the following, I can work out the speeds by gear with both th 4.4 & 4.1 All gear ratios tyre size engine rev limit 4.1s were fitted to 1.1 models & vans IIRC 3.89 is probably the most common
BigBubba Posted February 18, 2015 Report Posted February 18, 2015 Meant to add, if you're getting a single piece prop, avoid the Rally Design ones. I had a nightmare with stiff joints and balance issues. Go for one from Peter Lloyd or RACE etc. You'll pay more, but no issues. Nothing more annoying than bolting on a new prop, only to have to remove and refit loads of times.
BigBubba Posted February 18, 2015 Report Posted February 18, 2015 I bought one for about £40 off ebay (I know, I know...) it does the job nicely, but it vibrates at about 3500rpm. Bzzz....bzzz....bzzz.... after a while it starts to bug me. Someone said there was a Quaife version for £100 but I look at this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quaife-Type9-5-Speed-Gearbox-Gear-Lever-Stick-R-Jointed-/230600155893?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item35b0d722f5 and it looks just the same as this £40 one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-MK2-Escort-Gp4-Rally-Car-5-speed-Quickshift-Gearlever-/131432544894 You can fit a little sleeve made from silicone hose where the spring is to stop the rattle. Mine drove me crazy too!! 1
Danish Posted February 18, 2015 Report Posted February 18, 2015 You can fit a little sleeve made from silicone hose where the spring is to stop the rattle. Mine drove me crazy too!! Cool, thanks. I'll try that.
mk1fez_mk2escort Posted February 18, 2015 Report Posted February 18, 2015 when i first did a zetec and type 9 conversion on my mk2 i used the rally design single piece prop and kept knocking the uj's out so i changed to the one retro ford sell and haven't had any problems since, i also used a 4.1 diff to to start with and that was plenty quick enough off the line but there wasn't enough top end for me so i changed back to a 3.89 which i found to be a nice ratio, still quick enough off the line to beat most things and would do about 145 mph. i also run a quaife atb and its great for the road and general messing about just took a little getting used to when i wanted to go sideways, i invested in some 2 piece half shafts when i snapped one of the standard ones at pod a couple of years back, but according to what ive heard about the atb they effectively go open diff when a wheel is cocked (dont quote me on this as i don't understand them) but i was able to drive home with one broken shaft cut down to stop it catching the bit still in the diff. 1
mk1del Posted February 18, 2015 Report Posted February 18, 2015 When I did mk1 cortina with zetec and 5speed dave colledge at retro ford made mine, spot on ,got one piece on my rs got that one from yukspeed ,also spot on
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