Strip & Paint or Fill & Paint. Bodyshop advice please - 68 Uren Apache

[Herr Doktor]

The time is drawing near for me to think about painting my '68 Uren Apache. I've been given conflicting advice by different people though

 

My mechanic mates, reckon as I've spent all the time and money getting the mechanics to be "tip top" I should either have it media blasted inside and out or acid dipped then painted "properly".

 

Whereas my body shop mates reckon I'm opening a whole can of worms! Both of them reckon I'd be better off saving the £1500-£2000 on blasting or dipping and getting it rubbed back, filled [as needed] then painted. I could then use the saved £1500-£2000 on "touch ups" in the future.

 

Both ideas make sense. I'm planning on keeping the car for quite sometime. I've been bitten in the arse before though. I have a 1965 VW Splitscreen camper that I had zipped and coated in the USA 10 years ago. The rotten metalwork was cut out then it was painted. Unfortunately I'm now starting to see bubbling already!

 

What's the consensus folks? Help [as always] greatly appreciated

Cheers

 

 

 

[Vista]

Read the last few pages of my van's build thread (link in sig) for my experience of acid dipping and e-coating. I wouldn't do it again

[Herr Doktor]

That's pretty much my quandary as it's happened to my 67 VW too

 

The bodywork "seems" solid enough on the Apache that's why my body shop mates both think I'd be better off saving the money for patch up's that, they reckon WILL happen down the line

[mk1del]

I always strip my cars back ,seen it before when dipped ,does good job of cleaning, but cleans too much off internally, mate had one done etch primed etc. Had it painted ,few months down line had rust coming through seams on heater bowl and scuttle panel etc,

[Herr Doktor]

I always strip my cars back ,seen it before when dipped ,does good job of cleaning, but cleans too much off internally, mate had one done etch primed etc. Had it painted ,few months down line had rust coming through seams on heater bowl and scuttle panel etc,

Cheers Del. This suggests it's something you do quite a lot? Are you in the body-shop business? [Not the cosmetics and make up type ;p ]. I'm curious to know as my bodyshop mates do not advocate going to bare metal due to the potential can of worms it can raise

[mk1del]

Have been in motor trade 32 years started out as mechanic ,but we had a bodyshop there, spent few years doing both, now own a garage business, have been running it 15 years ,in which between have done a few restorations ,but mainly for my

own cars, obviously learn by own mistakes, but old cars hide a lot of problems so I do bare metal if several layers of paint , but only one or two panels at  a time, but never leave metals bare, that's where micro blisters start , at least that then fresh primer and paint shouldn't react,

But recently rented bodyshop ,so don't really do much nowadays,

Too busy with mot and repair work,

Thanks

[Herr Doktor]

Cheers Del.

 

I find myself none the wiser whether to strip the Escort Apache back to bare metal or "fill and paint" as-is. As mentioned I've been bitten on the ass before!

 

In late 2002, again, whilst browsing the web, I spotted a 1965 SO42 VW Splitscreen campervan in Washington USA. Prior to spotting it, I knew absolutely nothing about campervans and hadn't really given much thought to getting one. Anyway, cutting a long story short, I flew to the USA and bought it. It turns out the SO42 is a much sought after variant so I decided to "do a proper job" and take advantage of the handsome £:$ exchange rate. Consequently I had it dipped to remove all paint and rust. Fortunately the bus originated in Texas so the only rust was on the battery tray. I then decided to pay quite a bit more and have the whole thing zinc plated. In my mind this bad boy was going to be with me for a very long time and be ever rust free. After the zinc was applied it went to a well known body shop in the USA [West Coast Custom] where it was given an absolutely stunning mirror finish paint in the exact same colours that attracted me in the first instance. 

 

Due to the age of the panels, very few were perfectly straight so had to have an element of filler applied to facilitate the smooth mirror finish applied by West Coast Customs.

 

Even with the £:$ exchange rate I still spent somewhere in the region of £10k for dipping, zinc plate and paint and that was 12 years ago!

 

Zoom forward 10 to 11 years of Great British weather. Late 2012 I noticed some bubbling appearing low down on the sills, bottom of the drivers door and the front nose cone. Gentle prodding with a screwdriver revealed a rather large hole down the long side sill resulting in the need to have it cut out and painted again. Sometime next year I'm scheduling to have it repainted.

 

When I saw the VW in 2002 it seemed solid enough. Indeed, the dipping proved it thus. 

 

I could easily have saved myself £10k back then and used that money for the repairs I now face. £10k for 10 years rust free seems quite excessive. £1000 per year in fact!

 

Similarly, a friend bought a VW camper from Ohio 5 years ago. Lacking the funds to have it dipped he spent every waking hour of every waking day rubbing it back to bare metal a panel at a time and painting a panel at a time. Guess what? He also has rust bubbles!

 

In principal, it seems a good idea to rub back to bare metal and I'm not 100% sure I won't do it with the Escort Apache but wonder if something different could/ should be done to facilitate a longer life span of rust free driving?? Granted, storing in a carcoon or the likes might help but storage space is at a premium for me. Maybe I should sell some vehicles!

[blueandwhite66]

I can help with your dilemma.........................  sell it to me !!

[Danish]

Read the last few pages of my van's build thread (link in sig) for my experience of acid dipping and e-coating. I wouldn't do it again

 

Likewise, I had my Mk3 Cortina dipped and I'd have to think hard before doing it again. It removed paint in really hard to get to areas like inside the A-posts, and left acid in some of the seams, which came back more rusty than they were before. On the positive side it removed three colours of paint, all the old bitumen, engine oil and stuff so I had a nice shiny shell to work on.

[Herr Doktor]

"The problem, simply put, is that we cannot choose everything simultaneously. So we live in danger of becoming paralyzed by indecision, terrified that every choice might be the wrong choice"

[irishtorag]

as said before bare metal a few panels at a time then get best etch available then prime straight away

only thing u can then do is spray a good rust proofing wax into every nuck and cranny and save funds for future work

 

I done that on a harrier 18 years ago and she still retains the same paint and panels

mind you I red leaded every panel I bared.

stinks of waxol still the last time I saw it but done the job

 

I heated the shell up with a space heater to make wax run out of every crevice so I knew it was well covered

 

kenny

[browneskids]

From what I looked into, a few years ago, my conclusions were....

 

Acid dipping will guarantee to remove ALL paint from EVERYWHERE.

 

Etch primed will guarantee to MISS small areas in unseen places.

 

..... so leaving some metal untreated - but you dont know where...

[Danish]

 

..... so leaving some metal untreated - but you dont know where...

 

 

Yup. I bought a boroscope and a pressure-fed spray gun with a long nozzle so I can re-paint inside the A, B & C posts, chassi rails, etc. But as you say, there'll still be bits missed.

 

I wonder if Ford dipped the shells in primer at the factory? 

[browneskids]

I wonder if Ford dipped the shells in primer at the factory?

Haha, if they did, I doubt you'd have half the problems you had in the first place...

 

Just as a comparison, this is a photo of the top of the front inner wing from a 1973 BMW 2002, when I removed the rotten front wings. I was amazed to find I had NO WORK whatsoever to do here. I'm not comparing the desirability of the BMW to old Fords, but they certainly spent more money on wax/sealing & added more metal in places....

 

You can still see the speed clips where the wing bolts to. My old Escort was much worse than this back in 1985 !!!

[theloudboy]

This is so interesting reading this there was a big ruck on Retards Club when someone said the acid stays in the seams they said people just make it up I'm getting mine blasted

[Danish]

This is so interesting reading this there was a big ruck on Retards Club when someone said the acid stays in the seams they said people just make it up

 

It's true, I have photos