Rubber boot spoilers

[ST_DERRY]

Hey guys.

Has anybody seen any of these reproduction boot spoilers from Australia. They look good but looks can be deceiving. He has a website and is on ebay too. The cost of shipping is pretty high but the guy says a group buy would bring the price down. Would anybody be interested in a group buy?

Cheers

[katana]

Burton's import and sell them - check them out there but apparently they aren't that good - ok for a track / rally car but not for a pride / show car!

[Vista]

Burton's import and sell them - check them out there but apparently they aren't that good - ok for a track / rally car but not for a pride / show car!

 

Here's a link to the Burton ones

 

http://www.burtonpower.com/rear-rubber-boot-spoiler-escort-mk2-rs-pl200.html

 

 

Re quality, I read conflicting reports on that front. There's an Australian member on here (Rallypack 2000) that reports the opposite re quality

[Rally Pack 2000]

Here's a link to the Burton ones

 

http://www.burtonpower.com/rear-rubber-boot-spoiler-escort-mk2-rs-pl200.html

 

 

Re quality, I read conflicting reports on that front. There's an Australian member on here (Rallypack 2000) that reports the opposite re quality

 

That is true I have watched them being made and it takes several hours just to make one and then weeks to fully cure. I still have an original Ford one new in its wrapping and when you turn it over you see how dodgy these things were made back whenever. Often the metal spine is visible along its entire length. The replicas dont they are better formed underneath than the originals. They even have been replicated with the Ford part number underneath. The level of accuracy is quite astonishing when you see all he variables needed to achieve it. He makes a whole range of other Escort and Capri rubbers and someone in the UK  has been sending them off to Chine to be replicated often quite poorly. The spoilers havent been replicated in China yet as the time and space required may be prohibitive as they need to make tens of thousands of something to make it viable. They will be dreadful if they do but it would put a stop to production of these ones and then no one will ever be able to get a decent one again. Like those horrible tail light assemblies where one fault in the lens has been passed down to thousands of units.

 

Those who report poor fitment are generally as a result of incorrect boot alignment and hole drilling. You would be surprised how much a couple of millimetres makes when just one of the holes is out, I found this out first hand when I changed boot lids and even used the old one as a template. The boot lids often look like they have been fitted correctly but when you add the spoiler you see they they havent and its instantly assumed that the spoiler is at fault when thats not the case. Also over the decades cars twist and shift slightly and the original spoilers have had years to bend and mould with the body and the new ones need time (in a warm environment) to slump itself into place especially at the ends. Even the thickness of the after-market boot rubbers can affect boot alignment and then subsequent spoiler fitment. Once in place properly you cannot tell the difference to an original one. One important thing to remember is that an English winter is not the right time to fit one. The guy who makes them has told me the stories of those that have returned them. Some trying to force the cold ends down with bricks in the middle of an English winter and ruining them. Another dug his fingers into it to get it out of the box when it was brittle from the cold. Its an unfortunate by-product of having to work on your cars all winter to have it ready to drive when the warm weather arrives. The spoilers  need a bit sun and weeks of warmth to settle into place with time and gravity.

 

Also there are different grades. Some with blemishes are sold for the rally brigade as they have had rules changes now where rubber spoilers must be fitted. Some people other than Burtons have bought and resold them, buying batches of B grade spoilers and selling them as A grade because the blemishes are so slight.  Im not sure of the agreements in place but I think Burtons are the exclusive reseller of the A grade ones but people are able to buy directly. My original Ford one would not pass even as a B grade and would be cut up in that workshop. Ford Australia got sick of replacing spoilers on cars within the first 12 months under warranty because they couldnt even go a year under the Australian sun. When I got my Mk2 it was 4 years old I didnt even realise that the spoilers were smooth as the surface was already rough and pocked all over. I just assumed thats how they were all made! It was only when I decided to buy a new one that I saw the difference. I have kept it under the bed like a mushroom away from the light for a couple of decades.

[katana]

Don't want to get into any arguments about this but Euro spec RS models weren't exactly built in conditions conducive to allowing the rubber mouldings to adapt to body shape - however poorly screwed together they were! And regarding holes in boot lids - if mine were cut in the factory to take a Ford part and a reproduction doesn't replicate that fit then i'd say it was defective and not as good as the original. The repro ones may feature better material compound but over here my original is still flexible even in depths of winter whilst sleeping hibernating in the garage. I realise these parts are niche products with a relatively small market but the material cost is low but mark up is high but quality is not reflected in some adopters experience for fit or finish - one of the earlier ones was bought direct from the manufacturer apparently and if - not saying it was - an A grade price was charged with a B grade product shipped because to was to the other side of the globe, that tends to get a person upset?

[Rally Pack 2000]

Your first comment is true but the cars were all perfectly straight uniform and new straight out of the factory.  Also its unclear the time frames involved but the factory ones, may to a certain extent, had an advantage because they went straight from the manufacturing process and then fitted to cars within days and allowed to finish their curing on the actual cars they will spend their life before being sold. These ones have to be cured for weeks on a factory floor. Im sure if it was bolted to a car days after it came out of the mould it may bell shape to it far quicker. Thats a luxury not afforded here. This would also explain why my new Ford one bought as a spare part fits no better than a replica. But years do distort and shift chassis' and the parts that are on them.  An example of his is I have a brand new bonnet and didnt fit properly. on my third bonnet purchase I found a 2nd hand  ghia one that was great. We like to think of these cars that we have resprayed and restored are as perfect as they left they factory but more often they are not. Your old one you may feel is flexible but try fitting it to a different car all together and im sure you will find it wont fit. My new Ford one doesnt fit my car any better than the replica. Just that I decided to keep the original for my cars last restoration in my old age. I have seen a 100 of these things laid out before me and the finish on every one was superior and flawless to the original Euro one. With the Ford one I can see in places how thin its skin is with soft spots cause by airpocket flaws underneath. Older ones decades old also have the benefit of years of curing in perfect conjunction with how the car shiffed and sagged through time. The replicas are given thicker skins and none of the airpocket flaws in them that probably give it less flexibility and requires a greater settle time on an old car that iss no longer as pristine as it once was.

 

Im not sure anyone can evaluate the value of materials and time taken to manufacture one, I had no idea till I stood there for hours. The metal rib frame stamped by hand and the materials wastage is phenomenal so the material costs are fair greater than anyone would perceive from merely sighting the end product. Not to mention the original materials are probably considered unacceptably toxic now and banned in most countries and require modern substitutes.  I know the testing procedure to achieve a similar finish to  the original took years and has to be re-valuated with each batch. The chemical balance for the material is specially made to ensure it expands in every way perfectly within the mould itself. A mould that was made by one man and the same one man makes one at a time and then only when the ambient temperature is exact for that chemical batch and its also maintained consistently for the 2 hours before its removed from the mould. But at the end of the day this is an individual hand made product and there are bound to be anomalies and they have a replacement warranty on them should that occur. Its more than just niche its borderline artisan with similar lead times if he were making bronze sculptures. He literally carved the mould himself. The markups are not high, if the day gets two hot then two spoilers in a row get ruined and thats half a day wasted. No one pays for those. The little unique rubbers and grommets he makes he churns out one at a time. Its so tedious I got board after a few minutes of watching. Im fortunate enough to live close to where these ones are manufactured so for the first time got to experience all that is involved, but if someone else begins to put together a batch of their own I will be sure to try theirs as well and compare. But in the three decades I have had the car I have had to make do with crappy pocked and pitted ones and even dabbled with a fibreglass version. I skinned one of the old ones and siliconed it onto the foam left on original frame. It didnt look terrible but you could slide your fingers under the ends and it was never ever going to settle down. So for me these replicas are a godsend, one I waited twenty years for. In the end of the day however these things work for some and not for others. I would be conservative to say that I dont use at least a third of the parts I get from the UK for my Escorts because the fit and finish is not up to scratch. At least with something rubber it may in time mould itself but some of he metal comp parts you try just will never fit in a month of Sundays so I can understand your grief and disappointment first hand when something doesnt fit. The guy has always struck me as reasonable and his goal has always been to fill gaps in certain parts that people have been desperate for for years. He does get a significant amount of people ripping him off as well so there are two sides to that sword for the potential to be upset. Paypal is a particular cause of distress from people evoking claims that were plain false. But I now he will listen to any reasonable criticism and try to address it. I know that Andy Burton had a representative here for a racing event and while here he was to make sure of the fitment issue from those expressed by one of their customers and when all was put before him it was given an all clear. There are so many variables even with my own I had some fettling to do before it even looked close to fitting. Some however will naturally get disillusioned with the process and hold out for a new Ford one. I have been offered considerable amounts for my one and I cant say I havent been tempted. Its often just a waiting game but for me a couple of decades was long enough and even the rejects this guy throws in the trash was better than all my old ones so it has met my personal expectations, unfortunately it didnt meet yours because I know how disappointing that can be. Its happened to me three times this week for cameras  and car parts. I know it does get disillusioning when you feel within yourself your throwing good money after bad. My advice in the case of any reservations is get the template for drilling the holes from Burtons or the guy and do that first and then organise a day to drive to Burtons and get them to pull it out of the box and plonk it on and if it looks like it fits ok with allowances the ends will need to settle a bit then your away. If it looks too far out then tell Burtons no thanks. There are many happy purchasers than not (given several hundred of these things have been sold) but as with everything rarely do people publish compliments and all that is mainly heard are when there are issue. That seems to be the way of human nature  with everything no one compliments anyone anymore. I would have personally taken it all to heart stopped making anything. But we need this stuff made and its rare to find someone with the time and skill to do it. I however generally dont adopt anything in the first batch regardless of whatever it is, Maybe check out the lastest ones that are at Burtons now just to be sure. They are the ones I just saw made. I know its never a consolation when you have forked out money already but I hope I have been helpful.

[Tackleberry]

Blimey...if Carlsberg did replies...

[Rally Pack 2000]

Blimey...if Carlsberg did replies...

 LOL My apologies, I often get lost in my lengthy replies. My own sister has asked me for dot point abbreviations to my emails.

[ST_DERRY]

Are burtons selling the a or b grade spoilers?

[The Transplanter]

I had a "squeeze" of a new one at the Classic Ford Show and its was definitely softer and more spongy than the originals

[stevegav]

Hi. Has anybody purchased one of these spoilers recently? The guy in Australia is still advertising them . Was wondering if the quality has improved, or are they still not as good as an old original? I see he makes and sells different grades .