miner strike

[Vista]

Just my view on Thatcherism/Tories - No offence intended

 

None taken, it's a discussion and all are allowed their own views

 

Re the poll tax, much as I hated paying it at the time. When I look back now I think it was a reasonable idea that was badly applied.

 

To take your own case, it was (my interpretation mind) meant to be a local community tax to pay for services funded by your local council. Now looking at it from that point of view, who is costing more? A house with 5 people in it or a house with 2 people in it? plus why should it always be the home owners that fund local councils, do non home owners not walk under street lights and put rubbish in council bins, use the parks, use the libraries, use other council subsidised facilities such as leisure centres etc.

 

Perhaps they got their maths wrong and it should have been better applied but in principle is it not fairer that everyone that uses a service helps with the cost of providing that service?

 

The next argument I can see coming is that the wealthy should pay more, and therefore council tax is fairer as it charges more according to the value of your home. Well can someone explain to me why should they pay more? They are already penalised by higher rates of income tax why should they pay more for a service that others get cheaply or free? When you catch a taxi / bus or go to the cinema / out for dinner (or anything else for that matter) are you asked to pay more because you look like you can afford it?

 

 

Oh and re swearing that you'll never vote Tory. Never say never, politics affect us all and I would vote Labour in a heart beat if I thought they were the right choice for the country at the time.

[SmokeEm]

All wise words that i cannot argue with Scott

 

I agree the higher earners shouldn't suffer more too.

 

 

I think the 'Reasonable idea, badly applied' statement says it perfectly and I shall retire back into my blissfull ignorance of the political world I'm happy there

[Guest cortinamad-gonetoo]

the poll tax was soon changed if i remember right after a couple of years

 

i was one of the thousands that didnt pay it the first year and i never had to it got written off in my case

 

i watched a minor documentry last night on bbc4 and its terrable what they went through

 

fighting between them selves trying to save their place of work

 

the decision some had to make to go back to work because they couldnt cope with no money and then they were assaulted and called scabs by what used to be their work mates

 

minonrs jailed or killed

 

a taxi driver killed in wales for taking a minor to work

 

 

what ever your views on this you cant say maggie wasnt to blame

 

maggie wanted to close the pits

 

aurther scargil was with the minors wanting the pits to stay open

 

who knows what britain would be like now if it wasnt for maggie , noone , because she was there she did what she did , close the pits , sell off council houses, introduce poll tax , i personly dont think she did good for britain, but i dont know what would have happened if we had a different pm at that time could of been worse, could have been better, who knows

[Vista]

I know the miners had a tough time but I think the police suffered pretty hard from it too. Oh and I can say Maggie wasn't to blame, she didn't send them out on Strike, Scargill did, she didn't keep them out on strike when it was obvious they weren't going to win, Scargill did.

 

Can those that have stated that they believed the pits were profitable and there was therefore no reason for their closure answer this for me?

 

Coal was a nationalised industry right? So if the pits were profitable they were keeping miners in work AND making money for the government?

 

Well if that was the case, what possible motive would Maggie have for closing them down? It's already been stated that she was money orientated so if the pits were indeed making money where's her motive for closing them?

[FredTransit]

Simple. Maggie wanted the miners to heel, and was prepared to finish the industry to do it. What profit was there in sending half of the army to a rock inhabited by more sheep that people just off Argentina? It was a huge PR exercise, and it worked. Had she gone, 'we can't afford that, and it has no commercial or strategic value' do you think she would have lasted another term? Another week? Nah!

 

The miners were another illustration of the North South divide. The nasty dirty business of digging coal out of the ground is some outdated tradition that happens oop North, or at least it seem that was the general consensus of people living South. They looked around their nice houses warmed by gas central heating and didn't think for a minute that coal had anything to do with the twentieth century. So they let the mines go, it was something that happened somewhere else.

[Vista]

Sorry but I don't wear that for a second. What you're suggesting is she let it happen out of some sort of class prejudice? Maggie was nothing if not a shrewd business doris and I don't believe even for a second that this all happened because she didn't like people with dirt under their fingernails.

 

Edit: P.S. The military has always been a profit making organisation, it's just not quite so obvious. British Empire was very profitable for britain, all built on the back of the Royal Navy being the most powerful force in the world. The Falkland islands are populated by British citizens and have a right to defence by the realm, what's more the South Atlantic territories likely contain significant oil and mineral wealth

[Guest cortinamad-gonetoo]

from the documentry i saw last night the police were very over handed and very violant to the strikers

 

i dont agree with all what the strikers did

 

ie why put there old work mates which decided to return to work through violance and fear and lable them scabs they had their reasons for returning to work

 

the minors who chose to strike. then strike, the minors who chose not to then they should have been left to go to work

 

but the police in some cases seemed to turn up to the picket lines to cause trouble they were seen 3 to 1 hitting miners with there trunceons and hitting and kicking them when they were down on the floor

[pauln]

Edit: P.S. The military has always been a profit making organisation, it's just not quite so obvious. British Empire was very profitable for britain, all built on the back of the Royal Navy being the most powerful force in the world. The Falkland islands are populated by British citizens and have a right to defence by the realm, what's more the South Atlantic territories likely contain significant oil and mineral wealth

 

 

Does that mean we are going to get a good return on all the blood we have expended in 2 gulf wars and afganistan (though the latter has a pretty profitable export). I'm trying not to sound sarcastic here as I would love to believe there an upside to the bloodshed. Or are you talking about past profits we have made. Interesting comment about oil and minerals in the south atlantic (where genuinely interested). What are our chance of exploiting them (or being allowed to exploit them).

[Vista]

What's the chance of being able to extract the mineral oil wealth? Pretty good I'd say as long as the territory remains ours to do so. Thing is, it's a pretty hostile environment down there so extraction of any oil that may be there would be an expensive business and isn't likely to happen until it's economically viable to do so. Be that from advances in technology or from higher oil prices.

 

Last time I was in Port Stanley you could buy a post card that was supposedly taken in the year 2050 once Stanley is an oil rich boom town, they show it looking like some rich texas oil town!

 

Yes I was talking about past profits made on the back of the British empire. Is there going to be any return on the loss of life in Iraq and Afghanistan? unlikely other than eventually (hopefully) a reduced terrorist threat to us, a better (and safer) standard of living for them and less heroin making it's way across here from Afghanistan.

[FredTransit]

Sorry but I don't wear that for a second. What you're suggesting is she let it happen out of some sort of class prejudice? Maggie was nothing if not a shrewd business doris and I don't believe even for a second that this all happened because she didn't like people with dirt under their fingernails.

 

Edit: P.S. The military has always been a profit making organisation, it's just not quite so obvious. British Empire was very profitable for britain, all built on the back of the Royal Navy being the most powerful force in the world. The Falkland islands are populated by British citizens and have a right to defence by the realm, what's more the South Atlantic territories likely contain significant oil and mineral wealth

 

Actually I was suggesting it was the people who let it happen, after all they could vote the government out, not Maggie. I am from Sheffield and lived in London during the time of the miner's strike, and it seemed to be as about as interesting to Londoners as something that was happening on mars

[tt capri]

I know the miners had a tough time but I think the police suffered pretty hard from it too

 

Yeah , they did , i saw with my own eyes coppers waving tenners at striking miners , men who had not had a penny for month's and some people wonder why there was bad feeling and violence with the police

[Vista]

I know the miners had a tough time but I think the police suffered pretty hard from it too

 

Yeah , they did , i saw with my own eyes coppers waving tenners at striking miners , men who had not had a penny for month's and some people wonder why there was bad feeling and violence with the police

 

I'm not saying there wasn't bad apples amongst the police, but the quote below from someone on their side of the picket line tends to suggest that they had some fairly unpleasant stuff happen to them too.

 

I was an AEU shop steward at 20. I was a copper at 22 and I was at the 'Battle for Orgreave' The first 3 days, we the Police, played football against the miners, and all had a good push and a shove when the trucks rolled in and out.

 

Then the mood changed, coaches full of radical rent a mob and students arrived, we, the Police, got paint stripper gel in bags was thrown at us, burning cars were rolled down the hill at us, we had bricks and broken drainage pipes thrown at us, this is all forgotten now, only footage of the the notorious mounted charges are shown. As a trade unionist it broke my heart to see the miners sold down the river by their leaders. I heard a quote " Arthur Scargill started the strike with a big union and a small house, but ended up with a small union and a big house". I saw miners on the bread line being given strike pay by a union rep driving an Jag XJS!! It was a shocking time, but it allowed me to save up for the deposit on my house, called Camelot, because it was made possble by the Knights of 'King Arthur'. Say what you want about Margaret Thatcher, Scargill appeared intent on bringing down the British Government, so she was being backed into a corner.

[accord83]

I will add to the above. I was in North Yorks Police, we started the strike travelling to other counties, and we ended the strike covering our own area, the Selby coalfields. There was a large 'Police Force' which came into mining communities and caused intense bad feelings, (on both sides), at times I felt saddened and embarassed to wear my uniform if they were in the same area. When these macho muppets had left, they forgot which coppers had to build bridges and try to police the areas. Grass roots policing can only be done with the approval and assistance of the public. Sadly the current Politicians seem to have missed this point, and tick box, soundbite, easy target policing seems to be the norm. It is easier to appease the noisiest voices than to look to improving the lives of the silent, law abiding majority.