Andrade Posted December 14, 2009 Report Posted December 14, 2009 Hi guys, I have just shortened the TCAs on my estate, and now i need to shorten the steering rack rods as well. Has anyone else done this? Or can anyone tell me if its an OK thing to do or will it affect steering in a bad way?
Jeff HPE Motorsport Posted December 14, 2009 Report Posted December 14, 2009 you will definately need to shorten the track rods as you will get bump steer! as the suspension moves up & down the tca moves in an arc & if the track rod is longer or shorter than intended then one will fight against the other hence the term bumpsteer! Jeff Harris..
Andrade Posted December 14, 2009 Author Report Posted December 14, 2009 Thanks a lot Jeff, I am on the right track then. I wanted to make sure everything will be fine before cutting.
Andrade Posted December 14, 2009 Author Report Posted December 14, 2009 So I took some measurements and i need to take off a minimum of 2cm from each track rod. What i had in mind to do is increase the thread, then cut off the extra part. However, the threaded part is about 1.5mm thicker than the rest of the rod, so i cannot continue increasing the thread. Do you guys know if the Mk2 escort rack is the same as the Mk1?
surrey_100e Posted December 14, 2009 Report Posted December 14, 2009 i have a feeling that the threads are different between the mk1 and mk2
cjay2004 Posted December 14, 2009 Report Posted December 14, 2009 i know about this as i`ve been down this road, basicly u cannot extend the treaded bit as the process in which the treads are made is not that of a tap n die method.... i had to cut the TRE down, this is ok as i waz advized as long as its 1/4 more than the thead thinkness itself (eg 16mm thread u need 20mm+ on the TRE...)if that makes sence... the alturnatave is to have a shorter track rod fitted from a different steering rack , as there only held on by a small amount of thread at the boot end... its not an easy solution , but that waz my options when i needed similer stuff done to my rack... hope this helps you...
Andrade Posted December 15, 2009 Author Report Posted December 15, 2009 i have a feeling that the threads are different between the mk1 and mk2 I was wondering about the escort mk2 rack because at the time being I have escort mk2 struts connected to the mk1 rack, so then i would simply need a set of standard Mk2 track rod ends to go with it.
Andrade Posted December 15, 2009 Author Report Posted December 15, 2009 i know about this as i`ve been down this road, basicly u cannot extend the treaded bit as the process in which the treads are made is not that of a tap n die method.... i had to cut the TRE down, this is ok as i waz advized as long as its 1/4 more than the thead thinkness itself (eg 16mm thread u need 20mm+ on the TRE...)if that makes sence... the alturnatave is to have a shorter track rod fitted from a different steering rack , as there only held on by a small amount of thread at the boot end... its not an easy solution , but that waz my options when i needed similer stuff done to my rack... hope this helps you... Thanks for your post cjay, so I have to scrap the idea of increasing the thread. By 'I had to cut the track rod end', do you mean the track rod? As i cannot understand how cutting the track rod end will make it shorter..
cjay2004 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Posted December 15, 2009 i know about this as i`ve been down this road, basicly u cannot extend the treaded bit as the process in which the treads are made is not that of a tap n die method.... i had to cut the TRE down, this is ok as i waz advized as long as its 1/4 more than the thead thinkness itself (eg 16mm thread u need 20mm+ on the TRE...)if that makes sence... the alturnatave is to have a shorter track rod fitted from a different steering rack , as there only held on by a small amount of thread at the boot end... its not an easy solution , but that waz my options when i needed similer stuff done to my rack... hope this helps you... Thanks for your post cjay, so I have to scrap the idea of increasing the thread. By 'I had to cut the track rod end', do you mean the track rod? As i cannot understand how cutting the track rod end will make it shorter.. hi, yeh sorry , u got to cut both, so if u need 20mm, i`d cut 10mm of the track rod, & 10mm of the track rod end, ... also when u cut the track rod leave the lock nut on so after its cut u can wind this off and it will leave the treads cleaner....
Andrade Posted December 15, 2009 Author Report Posted December 15, 2009 hi, yeh sorry , u got to cut both, so if u need 20mm, i`d cut 10mm of the track rod, & 10mm of the track rod end, ...also when u cut the track rod leave the lock nut on so after its cut u can wind this off and it will leave the treads cleaner.... Thanks again for your tip cjay, i appreciate
Andrade Posted December 18, 2009 Author Report Posted December 18, 2009 I just had a Eureka moment!! what do you guys thing about doing something like below? a hexagonal bar as a sleeve to keep the rod aligned, then welded in place. I can then use the same sleeve to adjust toe.
V8ian Posted December 18, 2009 Report Posted December 18, 2009 Take the track arms off the rack, take them down the local friendly machine shop and get them to turn the O/D down, and run a bit more thread up the shaft, that will take them less than 1/2 hout to do if they have the right die, One problem I forsee is you will possibly still have bump steer with the shortened TCAs as the angle change in suspension movement has increased for a given amount suspension rise and fall, Personally I would have moved the inner pickup points and narrowed the rack
Andrade Posted December 18, 2009 Author Report Posted December 18, 2009 Take the track arms off the rack, take them down the local friendly machine shop and get them to turn the O/D down, and run a bit more thread up the shaft, that will take them less than 1/2 hout to do if they have the right die I'd love to do that but the threaded part is thicker than the rest of the rack, so its not possible.. One problem I forsee is you will possibly still have bump steer with the shortened TCAs as the angle change in suspension movement has increased for a given amount suspension rise and fall, Personally I would have moved the inner pickup points and narrowed the rack I should not have bumpsteer as the mounting points are still in the original place, and the length i decrease from the tca will be decreased from the tie rods with the same ratio. A bit of a headache this one! too many variables
hellblue Posted December 18, 2009 Report Posted December 18, 2009 You can get round this simple as.... you cut 10mm of thread off the track rod end & you cut 10mm from the end of the track rod/ball joint !! you will still have enough thread in them if you worked it out right !! I have done this a few times now & its done on my present mk1 cortina or if you use rod ends (& not a ball joint) they are shorter, you will need a tapered sleeve and a bolt through the arm (8.8 strength at least) with what you want to take off this may be best As long as the inner pivot points of the tca's & track rod ends are in the stock positions there is no reason you should get bump steer try & have them run parallel to the ground at ride hight tho
Andrade Posted December 19, 2009 Author Report Posted December 19, 2009 You can get round this simple as.... you cut 10mm of thread off the track rod end & you cut 10mm from the end of the track rod/ball joint !! you will still have enough thread in them if you worked it out right !! I have done this a few times now & its done on my present mk1 cortina or if you use rod ends (& not a ball joint) they are shorter, you will need a tapered sleeve and a bolt through the arm (8.8 strength at least) with what you want to take off this may be bestAs long as the inner pivot points of the tca's & track rod ends are in the stock positions there is no reason you should get bump steer try & have them run parallel to the ground at ride hight tho Thats the neatest solution I am considering changing tyres to avoid cutting too much from the rack and also have slightly more camber if i want to (hence the other thread)
Andrade Posted December 19, 2009 Author Report Posted December 19, 2009 I was doing some maths and decided to do two diagrams:
birdy Posted December 20, 2009 Report Posted December 20, 2009 Seems like you have had a lot of advice on this already but i am gonna stick my oar in too. I have done this a few times so this might be of some use. Whatever you have taken out of the tca you will need to take out of the track rod. Cut the amount you need to out of the middle of track rod, then put a chamfer on the two ends to be welded back together. By chamfering the ends it will give a stronger weld. Find a piece of mild steel tube that the track rod fits into and cut a two inch long sleeve. Slide the sleeve onto the track rod past the area to be joined. Square up your two ends to each other and weld them together. Grind the weld flush and then slide the sleeve over the welded area and weld up the ends. Job done. I am not saying it's the best way but i did this on my pop and it's been alright for the last 15 years.
Andrade Posted December 20, 2009 Author Report Posted December 20, 2009 Thanks birdy, I think that is the easiest solution to go about this. I didn't go with it yet as there are two more possible options: 1) Rose jointed track rod ends are shorter than standard ones, but I don't know by how much. 2) Apparently racks exist that their thread's diameter is identical to the rest of the rod. A friend of mine has one of these but is not sure off what vehicle it is. Using the same ratio as the diagrams above i need to lose 2.4cm from the rack, 1.2 off each track rod. So I don't think rose jointed track rod ends will cater for all that distance. I think I'd better just go buy a sleeve tomorrow and get this over with!
Retromotorsport Posted December 20, 2009 Report Posted December 20, 2009 An M14x2 female rod end is around 40mm and a standard TRE is around 60mm from memory
Andrade Posted December 20, 2009 Author Report Posted December 20, 2009 An M14x2 female rod end is around 40mm and a standard TRE is around 60mm from memory Do you remember where are the 20mm taken from? Standard lengths A = 40mm B = 22mm And is it possible to have a rose jointed rod end meet a mk1 escort rack to the mk2 suspension?
Retromotorsport Posted December 20, 2009 Report Posted December 20, 2009 the A+B is 40mm you would need to speak to a rod end supplier about the thread, but i would say they would do an Imperial rod end to suit .
Andrade Posted December 20, 2009 Author Report Posted December 20, 2009 Thanks a lot for the info! that would be the neatest solution
Retromotorsport Posted December 20, 2009 Report Posted December 20, 2009 http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/imperial-rod-ends-242-c.asp have a look
Andrade Posted December 20, 2009 Author Report Posted December 20, 2009 http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/imperial-rod-ends-242-c.asp have a look Very interesting! (and cheap ) and then you use a normal metric bolt to meet them up with the suspension?
Retromotorsport Posted December 20, 2009 Report Posted December 20, 2009 rally design sell a pin that has a taper on it, but i cant find it on their website, i think if you look at their advert in the magazines it has a picture of it with the Kit Car suspension, or if you have their printed catalogue
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now