Trying to find out what this car is

[Herr Doktor]

Having recently bought a MK1 Escort I've been researching trying to find out exactly what it is.

Based on research I've carried out so far and the VIN/Chassis/Frame no for the car [bB42HL34839] I believe the car to be this;
B = Ford of GT Britain
B = Produced in Halewood
42 = 2 door De Luxe Saloon
H = 1968
L = Left hand drive??
34839 = No idea

The V5 states the following
Make: Ford
Model/Type: Escort RS Custom
Both variant and version are blank

I know it's a simple matter to change the Cylinder Capacity (cc) and Colour by simply writing to the DVLA but can you change the Model/Type too??

To say I'm confused.com is an understatement! 

 

Any help is greatly appreciated

Thx

[rallyesport04]

34839 is the serial number       your v5 saids rs custom only mk2 escorts were customs looks like you got a mk2 v5 on your mk1 escort or when the lhd car came over dvla give it a age related log book with incorrect information on it     i had a mk1 de luxe on a F plate with the early type vin like yours starting bb on my v5 it stated  escort saloon de luxe

[Vista]

Your VIN plate is the early type, in use till August 1970.

 

BB42 is exactly what you said it is.

H is indeed 1968

L is month of production, in this case September.

 

Across the top of your VIN plate should be a row showing numbers and letters for drive, Eng, axle and trim. At the bottom, one for paint code. Do you have those details?

 

As to your V5C, do the chassis number and reg no match your car? It certainly isn't an RS custom as the designation RS didn't exist at all in 1968 and as above, Custom is a mk2 model type.

 

edit: the two types of escort VIN plate are shown below

 

[Herr Doktor]

34839 is the serial number       your v5 saids rs custom only mk2 escorts were customs looks like you got a mk2 v5 on your mk1 escort or when the lhd car came over dvla give it a age related log book with incorrect information on it     i had a mk1 de luxe on a F plate with the early type vin like yours starting bb on my v5 it stated  escort saloon de luxe

Thanks rallyesport04. I figured the "L" in the VIN No represented a LHD vehicle. So you think it came from overseas sometime during its life, was converted to rhd by a previous owner and the DVLA gave it an age related plate but botched the Model/Type? If that's the case, what have I bought? An RS or not? What would an early RS say on the logbook for Model/Type? Sorry for all the questions but I'm new to "Ford World".

 

Alas Vista, no VIN Plate is situated on the vehicle. The engine No and reg numbers match though. As does the engine CC [3050]

[Vista]

As I said above, L does not refer to LHD. It's the build month of the car at Halewood.

 

You haven't bought an RS, they didn't exist in 1968.

 

On your V5, the engine number and cc can be changed. The chassis number can't. What is the chassis/vin no on your V5 and is it on the car anywhere?

[Herr Doktor]

The plot thickens!

If "L" refers to the month of production, in this case September, the V5 does not collaborate that. 

 

The V5 states date of first registration as 15/11/1968. Which is clearly November. Was there a delay perhaps?

 

There is no VIN Tag present in the engine bay. Could one be somewhere else as well?

 

The Chassis/VIN No on the V5 reads BB42HL34839 

Thanks

[Vista]

Yes, quite feasible that there's a gap. VIN refers to date of production and V5 the date of registration.

 

VIN plate, if present, on a mk1 escort is on the slam panel. The VIN number would also have been stamped into the offside strut top. That's probably been replace by now so there'll be no vin on the car anywhere. What's the reg no?

[macford]

Month of production and month first registered can be a good few month of a difference

Could have been sitting in a garage for months after it came off its production line

[Herr Doktor]

Thanks for the comments so far people

 

The reg No is: POR 882G

 

The colour on the V5 is Green whereas the car is dark blue. Sometime in its life [and not too long ago] it's undergone a refurb. It has new inner and outer wings, no rust anywhere and resprayed inside and out dark blue.

Cheers

[katana]

Question really is ...................did you buy it as a Mk1 RS or a Mk1 Escort Deluxe ? If it has all the fittings and extras of an RS, then it could be a re-shelled ringer

but the V5 certainly shouldn't say RS Custom which as others have said refers to later Mk2 cars ONLY - this could be a DVLA error.

[Vista]

Thanks for the comments so far people

 

The reg No is: POR 882G

 

The colour on the V5 is Green whereas the car is dark blue. Sometime in its life [and not too long ago] it's undergone a refurb. It has new inner and outer wings, no rust anywhere and resprayed inside and out dark blue.

Cheers

 

 

It sounds like the car has been extensively modified over the years, I'm assuming from the cc that it's got a tweaked Essex V6 in it?

 

Originally, from your VIN number it would just have been a 2 door deluxe escort, but without the extra details from the VIN plate no-one will be able to tell you anymore than that.

 

Looking at a V5C now though you can apply for them to change the wheel plan or body type but not the model.

 

Does it list on line D3 Model: Escort and then on line D5 Body type RS Custom?

 

If so I'll wager that whoever fitted the V6 engine entered a change of body type on the V5C from something like "saloon" to "RS custom"

 

For info, my V5C for my mk1 RS lists it as:

 

Model Escort RS2000

Body type: 2 door saloon

 

One other thing to be aware of is the car is showing on DVLA's system as having a date of VED liability of Feb 2012 and also "Unlicensed with Keeper Change". Watch you don't get a fine for not SORNing it.

[rallyesport04]

if the car is a early shell on the bulkhead n/s an o/s at the top next to the inner wings the loom came out both sides the plug was rectangle later cars had a round plug only on the n/s, the door handles inside an out were the same as mk2 cortina the drivers side was the only side that had a key lock, the heater bubble didnt have a flattend bit either end like later cars did,  on the bulkhead top o/s the washer bottle located on three pins know as the cheese wedge washer bottle later cars had the washer bottle mounted on the n/s of the heater bubble, my f plate had a bonnet pop in the grille not sure if G plate cars had this, early cars had compression stuts onto the tca they didnt have a antiroll bar like later cars i belive the rear pannel was differant too,early cars the rear shocks bolted directly to the floor later cars had a rubber mounted bar that both shocks bolt too also the rear firewall had no holes in later cars had cut outs

[Herr Doktor]

I've written to the DVLA for the names/addresses of the previous owners to try and get a better idea.

 

This gets even more interesting. I spoke to the previous owner this morning who gave me the name, address and number of the person that he bought it off in 2008.

 

That person told me that the person he bought it off told him the car was converted by Jeff Uren in the early 70's to its current state. Some simple research reveals Jeff Uren is responsible for the Cortina Savage.  From my research I have discovered Around 1000 Savages were made, Cortina’s MKII – MKIV, the 1600E based models being the most popular.

 

1700 cars in total were converted by Uren's company Race Proved Performance and Racing Equipment Ltd, comprising, the 3 litre Capri (Comanche), 3 litre Mk1 Escort (Apache), 2 litre MK1 Escort (Navaho), 2.5 litre Cortina (Cheetah), 3 litre Granada (Seneca), 5 litre V8 Capri (Stampede) and the 3 litre Transit (Easypower). [source of information http://www.urensavagev6cortinamk2.co.uk/Jeff%20Uren.html] 

 

I'm wondering if I've bought an Escort Apache that was professionally converted by Uren in the 70's and it was he that changed the log book as part of the conversion process

[The Transplanter]

If it is an Apache, its not inconceivable that the V5 got changed when it was built (much easier back then).

 

Do you have any pics of the car?

 

Also if it were an import the V5 would state "previously used or registered abroad" "declared year of manufacture"

[Herr Doktor]

 

Does it list on line D3 Model: Escort and then on line D5 Body type RS Custom?

 

D.1 Make: FORD

D.2 Model/Type: ESCORT RS CUSTOM

D.3 Body Type: SALOON

 

I don't have a B5??

 

After D.3 it goes onto

(X) Taxation CLass: HISTORIC VEHICLE

(Y) Revenue weight:

P.1 Cylinder Capacity: 3050CC

 

If it is an Apache does that make it more/less sought after I wonder. Jeff Uren didn't just slap a big engine in it and "job done". My understanding is he did everything needed to enhance and improve the overall vehicle; engine, brakes, suspension, body strengthening etc..

 

I'll take some pictures and upload tomorrow.  With these lovely short days, it's dark when I go to work and dark when I return!

 

 

 

Cheers

[quickrack]

If you have bought an Apache you are a very lucky man!

[Blimey]

If it is an Apache, its not inconceivable that the V5 got changed when it was built (much easier back then).

 

Do you have any pics of the car?

 

Also if it were an import the V5 would state "previously used or registered abroad" "declared year of manufacture"

Pics here

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C445519#

[SmokeEm]

Good lord, 17k !

[Herr Doktor]

Good lord, 17k !

Yup, that's it but I didn't pay £17k. Under the allure of a bag of used £20's he succumbed to my charm ;p

[D-FENS]

I remember seeing this car on Ebay,very nice .

[Herr Doktor]

I remember seeing this car on Ebay,very nice .

 

It needs a few bits 'n' bobs doing do it as all 40odd year old vehicles will. it's a fantastic base to work off and if I can prove it to be an Apache