IMPORTANT.........has anyone heard

[jimbo]

Reading this lot just lit my touch paper. My points aren't aimed at anyone particular individual, but the chances are, that it offends you, it's aimed at you......

 

Firstly treat yourself to a better newspaper. One with less "Birds", "Celeb News" and more pages generally gives you a far more informed opinion. And you get better sport coverage (which is always the generic excuse for anyone belittled about reading a tabloid)

 

The story itself is based on a tiny snippet of suggestion by a think tank. The IPPR (who suggested this) suggested that money focused on celebrating Christmas, should also be considered to celebrate other major religious festivals. But of course the Sun turns it in to "Bid to Ban Christmas Cheer".

 

And of course Christmas is a religious festival, and how many here actually are religious? By religious, I mean regular worship. Not just ticking a box when you fill in a form, watching the occasional "Songs of Praise" or going to Christmas mass after the Pub! Thought as much!

 

Given how church attendance has dropped over the last 50 years, I don't think that many. Ironically in recent years attendances are going back up.

 

The reason? Yes, you've guessed it. Ethnic minorities.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5349132.stm

 

As for all this talk of integrating. What? You mean that we should integrate like brits do when they're abroad? Hanging around acting all loud and boozy, when it's so obviously out of place compared to the local culture. Again, ironic isn't it, that we now choose to go to eastern European cities to act like that.

 

Or how about the British ex-pats out in Spain? Setting up their little cliques with other Brits, spending all day drinking and smoking, then trying to burden their life of ill health on a foreign countries health system. Quality integration. And how should a migrant worker integrate when they're obviously surrounded by so much prejudice.

 

In life there are chancers, and yes, our welfare state system probably encourages more than our fair share of foreign scroungers compared to other EU countries. But our system also encourages generation after generation of British scroungers, who think that they are owed a living. We only have ourselves to blame for allowing the country to get to that state.

 

And as for migrant workers themselves, they are here to earn a living and achieve a better life for them and their loved ones, and I have yet to meet one that is doing a job that I crave myself.

 

They are here because they are following the path to a better life, and that's being going on for as long as man has walked the planet.

 

Remember too, that you are all citizens of the world. And if you have something to offer, there are opportunities for you to have a better quality of life elsewhere. If you don't like where this country is going, why don't YOU go somewhere else?

[Tuffty]

well said

[jimbo]

well said

 

Thanks Tufty. Sorry you had to see rubbish like this having only being signed up to OSF for 2 weeks. The majority of people on here aren't bigoted racists, and appear to be good level-headed people.

 

Unfortunately (and I can only guess this by the poor spelling) is that some people found the OSF whilst looking for the BNP.

[mk2escortmad]

dont think so mate, i just get really pissed off with them taking over this country.....it really riles me.

being disabled its hard enough getting a job anyway let alone them taking it, the last interview i had i didnt get the job i was fully capable of doin, an "immigrant got it" AND they are also very rude, they usually dnt bother opening doors for me when im in my wheelchair they walk through and let it shut on me, i may be a little thing to you tho

[johnny_h]

well said

 

Thanks Tufty. Sorry you had to see rubbish like this having only being signed up to OSF for 2 weeks. The majority of people on here aren't bigoted racists, and appear to be good level-headed people.

 

Unfortunately (and I can only guess this by the poor spelling) is that some people found the OSF whilst looking for the BNP.

 

Mate you must live in a very nice part of the world with your rose tinted glasses on.

[flyingbanana]

 

They are here because they are following the path to a better life, and that's being going on for as long as man has walked the planet.

 

they only come here to earn money to send it home...so how does britian gain from this...it can only get more worse

 

 

Remember too, that you are all citizens of the world. And if you have something to offer, there are opportunities for you to have a better quality of life elsewhere. If you don't like where this country is going, why don't YOU go somewhere else?

 

why should we go some where else ....this is where i was born and i aint being pushed out by no-body- sorry i dont get annoyed easily,but those comments got me annoyed

[Vista]

Play nicely please guys, Jimboshka may have worded his post fairly strongly but he does have some valid points and that's why we debate these things eh?

 

For instance, if the UK had suffered years of Communist rule and was effectively a poor country whilst Poland had benefited from years of boom and free trade on the open market, I suspect many of us would be heading east looking for the chance of making a better life for ourselves. So personally I can't hold it against anyone who wants to come here and do the same.

[johnny_h]

For the record I haven't got a problem with immigrants legitimately seeking work here. I think we are tarring everyone with the same brush here. We have Polish guys where I work. I get on with all of them, they get paid the same as everyone else but the difference is they work harder for it. My personal greivance is with the illegal contingent, the scroungers, the criminal's, the drug dealers, the car theives, the religious extremists.

[Posse]

i love them they get us loads of work becouse theres is so shit.But like johnny said they do work there tits off.

[Cookie]

 

 

 

Remember too, that you are all citizens of the world. And if you have something to offer, there are opportunities for you to have a better quality of life elsewhere. If you don't like where this country is going, why don't YOU go somewhere else?

 

why should we go some where else ....this is where i was born and i aint being pushed out by no-body- sorry i dont get annoyed easily,but those comments got me annoyed

 

 

 

FOOKIN RIGHT THERE MR B!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Tufty. Sorry you had to see rubbish like this having only being signed up to OSF for 2 weeks. The majority of people on here aren't bigoted racists, and appear to be good level-headed people.

 

Unfortunately (and I can only guess this by the poor spelling) is that some people found the OSF whilst looking for the BNP.

 

 

 

 

THATTS BANG OUT OF ORDER!

THE PEOPLE YOU REFER TO AS 'BIGTOED RACISTS' ARE THE PEOPLE THAT FUND THIS COUNTRY AND STRUGGLE TO KEEP PAYING TO KEEP THE COUNTRY GOING, WITH IT'S OVER TAXATION AT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY TO HELP AID PEOPLE TO COME HERE AND BLATANTLY TAKE THE PISS OUT OF US!!!!!!!

TAKE, TAKE AND TAKE, OH AND THEN MAYBE GO TO BOMB SCHOOL TO KILL THA HAND THAT FEEDS THEM, KNOWING FULL WELL THAT THE NEXT HAND WILL FEED THEM JUST AS BEFORE!!!

[ZetecVan 2.0]

For the record I haven't got a problem with immigrants legitimately seeking work here. I think we are tarring everyone with the same brush here. We have Polish guys where I work. I get on with all of them, they get paid the same as everyone else but the difference is they work harder for it. My personal greivance is with the illegal contingent, the scroungers, the criminal's, the drug dealers, the car theives, the religious extremists.

 

Spot on Johnny. I was about to say something along those lines. There's quite a few polish at the warehouse I work from. One, Andrew, has been there years and is a top guy. The women are as tasty as hell!!

 

I'd rather have polish in my country working hard and paying their way, than chavs being cocky and breaking into cars and scrounging off the government.

 

I read the ban christmas story in the Daily Telegraph. They said they should have religious festivals for other religious groups. Well, here in Bradford and probably a lot of towns they already do.

[Rick]

wow this threads heated up a bit.

 

lots of good points on both sides here that you cant argue with.

 

its all about ridding ourselves of the bad and joining with the good i guess,

 

let the immigrants in that are skilled and unlikely to sponge off the government in, swiftly remove those that arent.

 

its our governments fault for not enforcing this, and probably the reason we are prejudiced towards the immigrants.

 

the choice between a skilled immigrant and an 18 yr old brit with 3 kids claiming benefit...

 

as much as id rather not be living amongst poles and iranians the fact is that some are willing to try unlike out homegrown youth.

 

we should also stop offering so much on a plate as theres always gonna be people to take take take

 

 

...maybe my initial post was a bit harsh it should be aimed more at the people controlling the immigrantion

[X-pack-Glyn]

The polish fish for our carp illegally and eat em.

They eat the swans too!

 

i dont like polish or swans.

But i like carp.

[Fiesta Steve]

The polish fish for our carp illegally and eat em.

They eat the swans too!

 

i dont like polish or swans.

But i like carp.

 

They are welcome to the swans

 

But not the carp

[Danmex]

As my views are bigoted and Racist I probably shouldn't get involved in this debate, but immigration is destroying one of my livleyhoods so I couldn't keep quiet. I work in the building trade as a joiner and it is getting incrediblly difficult to find work due to the amount of Poles flooding the labour market. When you try to get work at a new site and are told by the site foreman "sorry mate but I could get 3 poles for what I'd have to pay you!" your views tend to get a bit slanted and biggoted, especially as most of these tossers only decided to be joiners etc the day before, but as they have no tracable work history they can get away with bluffing it. I had to move out of London because the situation there is beyond a joke. The last site I was on had 25 joiners only three of us had English as a first Langauge and most didn't have it all. This is incredibly dangerous as I don't know the Polish for " watch out mate that beam is falling on your head"

 

1.1 Million my arse I used to pass more than that on the way to Canary Wharf! Never mind rose tinted specks half the country are wearing blinkers

[X-pack-Glyn]

The polish fish for our carp illegally and eat em.

They eat the swans too!

 

i dont like polish or swans.

But i like carp.

 

They are welcome to the swans

 

But not the carp

 

they cought some of the buggers at my lake, with a £10 telescopic rod

farmer chased em off with a sidebyside

[jimbo]

HeHeHe I did rattle some cages didn't I?

 

I will reply, but first I'm off to watch "This Week" See you later.

[jimbo]

No "This Week" this week. Seems like our beloved MPs needed a week off.

Tough job, eh?

 

Right well......Wow! Where do I begin?

 

Firstly....my BNP comment was probably out of order......Apologies if I offended there. Though I had been rilled by some of the less subtle comments in the post, such as ticking muslims and bomb school. I don't think comments like that help anybody when aired publicly...........

 

OK. I'll be up all night if I try to bat back each comment, so I'll keep it generalised.

 

Let's seperate migrant workers, organised crime gangs and terrorists because they exist for very different reasons. The only thing linking them is that they are of foreign descent.

 

Crime Gangs.....Well, crime and the act of doing wrong, is as old as the ten commandments (if such a thing existed) The UK is a big commerce centre with lots of money going around. Much more money than the home bases of these gangs and this is why they are here. From drugs and prostitution to dodgy DVDs and fags, these operations are bolstered by people sustaining these markets. If we cleaned up our acts, there'd be no market and no reason for these gangs to operate to the extent that they do. Yes, that wont sort everything, but wherever there is riches, they will be someone wanting to get it by illegitimate means.

 

Terrorists.....What we're taking here is Islamic fundamentalists. This is a manifestation of an ideological struggle, that's being going on since we (the west) plundered into the middle east with a bible in one hand and a sword in the other. The big difference these days is that the battlefield has moved into western countries. It will be many generations, and unfortunatley much more blood shed, before this is resolved. We can do something about this by tolerating, understanding and interacting with Muslims. It's the mutual fear and lack of understanding, on both sides, that will keep this going. Again we, as a population, have the ability to do something about this.

 

Generally migrant workers are here doing jobs that need to be filled to keep the economy growing. As I work round London, there are foreigners serving my coffee, emptying my bin, serving my lunch in the canteen, etc. They are paid so pitifully, I would find it hard to imagine that any of us would do it. The NHS opened up to allowing people in to do these jobs because they couldn't get UK nationals to fill the posts. These are jobs that have to be done, and that I (in my white middle-class, management, ivory tower) have come to appreciate the importance of. Their presence allows me to get on and do my job.

 

When we opened the EU to free passage of workers we made it easier to find people who would do these low-paid jobs. An unfortunate side effect is that there has been a deluge of trades people come in as well. It was good at first because there was a shortage, but I donlt think that this is the case now. Having seen the "ahem" quality of work done by some Eastern European tradesmen, I would probably "go local" if I wanted something done on my home. I think our government has failed us by allowing the situation to go completely unchecked. Though I understand that our options to opt out of, or modify, EU treaties that allow this, are limited.

 

When they come over here to work, they are sending money home to give their families a better quality of life. It's their money, it's their choice (in the same way that you might choose to buy a TV built in China rather than one built in South Wales). They should still be paying tax and NI on their earnings and if they aren't, then that's the fault of either dodgy employers or again government failings, not the person doing the job.

 

Ultimately, wherever you go on this planet, there are ordinary people, like you and me, just trying to get by. The majority of those people are driven by the same desires. To have a decent standard of life and to try to give their future generations the best chance of improving on that.

 

The fact is that there is a lot that is wrong with this country. For the record, I believe a lot of it to be caused by a combination of bad wealth distribution and social breakdown. But the easiest, most basic way out of us accepting responsibility for it (and after all we've allowed the government to put us here) is to blame people that we don't understand. What's driving this is fear and insecurity in the public psyche. Only you, yes you, the individual, have the ability and the strength to actually get out there and do something about it.

 

If we keep living in a world where we blame migrants for everything that goes wrong, we'll end up with a brainwashed nation, despising these people for no good reason, and following a leader hell-bent on persecuting them. I'm not going to speak on Tuffty's behalf (and I certainly don't want to drag him unwillingly into the heat I've generated) but I think he was getting at exactly that when he talked about Hitler. Thousands of people gave their lives to overthrow that sort of oppression and not for it to happen again on our own shores.

 

What I'm trying to say is that my BIGGEST fear, above all others, is that if we (and the people we elect to run this country) don't get this right, we could find the UK carrying a post-holocaust shame around it's neck in a centuries time and I don't want that for the country I dearly love.

 

[Plays national anthem]

 

Jim

 

PS. The carp thing...... in Poland, it's perfectly legit to fish for these and eat them (quite tasty, I'm told) I guess that's it's just fair game to them. Apparently, the rivers in Eastern Europe are brimming with them. Fishing trip anybody?

 

PPS. "This is incredibly dangerous as I don't know the Polish for " watch out mate that beam is falling on your head" " PMSL