antz Posted October 30, 2007 Report Posted October 30, 2007 who is using a type 9 gearbox in their old ford? i have been contempleting this as im fitting my 1700 as soon as its built and was going to keep the standard 4 speed but every show or meet is at least 2 hours away so its a long drive. i dont wanna be revving the tits off her in 4th constantly plus itll save me fuel with a 5 speed....BUT i cant stand 5 speed boxes and hate the diea of having a 1st gear shorter than a chavs mini skirt on a saturday night! so anyone got any ideas liek good points, bad points what everyone thinks i should do?
lee_capri Posted October 30, 2007 Report Posted October 30, 2007 id go 4-speed i dont think they is a lot of diff in fuel,just better cruseing with 5-speed box
petrolhead Posted October 30, 2007 Report Posted October 30, 2007 4 speed in a crossflow definitely! Just use 3.54:1 diff that you get as standard in RS2000's and 1600Ghias.
antz Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Posted October 30, 2007 4 speed in a crossflow definitely! Just use 3.54:1 diff that you get as standard in RS2000's and 1600Ghias. that makes it a big better? i think mines a 3.9 cos its a 1.3 ghia. ii just loathe 5 speeds but santa pod is 4 horus away and ill eb deaf by the time i get there and its bad enough on fuel as it is
Muttley MK2 Posted October 30, 2007 Report Posted October 30, 2007 I'm pretty sure that top gear is straight through the box i.e 1to 1 whether the box is four or five speed. A five speed box just splits the difference between 1st and top by three instead of two. This gives a better spread of ratios closer together and therefore better for keeping the vehicle in the best gear for acceleration. This is why they give better fuel consumption. With a 4 speed box or 5 speed your revs in top gear will be the same only your diff ratio will alter this.
antz Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Posted October 30, 2007 supposedly the type 9 gives a 500rpm drop in 5th gear over a 4 speed box.
Muttley MK2 Posted October 30, 2007 Report Posted October 30, 2007 Thats possible but I thought top gears were straight through, I have had 7 2.8 capris 3 four speeds and four five speeds they returned about the same mpg and were not noticeably different in revs at top gear both types showing 3000rpm at seventy mph. 500 rpm diff will not change your driveability or comfort at speed. Your diff will though!
andygfc Posted October 30, 2007 Report Posted October 30, 2007 5spd is either .89 or .83 in 5th ( i think) I've had 5spd in x-flow and dont really believe there is that much difference between 4spd and 5spd acceleration wise but they sure are much better on a run
antz Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Posted October 30, 2007 if it was just for blasting round locally i wouldnt mind but i do a lot of motorway mileage and as i said car meets and shows are anythign from 2-5 hours away and im just thinking about the motorway mileage. im stuck between a type 9 and my 3.9 diff OR a 4speed sport box and a 3.54
petrolhead Posted October 30, 2007 Report Posted October 30, 2007 Agreed, I think top gear on 5 speed in 0.89ish, while 4th gear on both boxes is 1:1. however, 5 speed has crap ratios for the crossflow. Didn't RetroFord do a like for like comparison? I seem to remember 5spd added 0.5secs to the 0-60 time. 3.54 axle is better for the motorways. Even behind a standard 1600 crossflow I didn't find it too tall. I would prefer to change the axle and keep the 4 speed.
antz Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Posted October 30, 2007 sounds like thats gonna be my best option cos i dont like 5 speed boxes. plus my diff has a rumble so i think its worn its had new oil adn still rumbles
mossy Posted October 30, 2007 Report Posted October 30, 2007 get a 2000e box...everyone seems to rate them!
antz Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Posted October 30, 2007 its all about money though i could get a type 9 cheap but a 2000e box is more expense i dont have
ZetecVan 2.0 Posted October 30, 2007 Report Posted October 30, 2007 I've a 3.54 diff and four speed box. At 70, it's running at about 3,600 rpm wich is very bareable. When I had the 4.1 in it was like 4,300 at 70 and very loud. I only did two motorway journeys in it before I put the old diff back in.
james p Posted October 30, 2007 Report Posted October 30, 2007 i use a 4 speed mate im guna be playin with diffs after crimbo to dial it in
Admin Vista Posted October 30, 2007 Admin Report Posted October 30, 2007 People criticise the type 9 for a number of things, the first is the short first gear ratio, and the second the reliability. The truth is that most of these type 9 gearboxes end up in our hands having already covered many many miles in an.other car, then we get them, stick lots of power through them and then criticise them when they fail. Well I've had two type 9's, one in a 160bhp essex equipped mk1 Capri and the other in my current pinto equipped escort. I had the capri rebuilt before installing it in 1998 and it's still going strong after many miles of enthusiastic driving by me and the cars new owner. The escort one was also rebuilt and the cars been on the road and driven plenty hard by the last four owners, again with no problems. Fourth gear in a four speeder is 1:1 as is fourth gear in the type 9, 5th gear in the type 9 is effectively an overdrive gear and that's what gives you improved fuel economy and lower revs at high rpm. Personally I've never worried about the short 1st gear as I'm not into drag or any other kind of racing and think about it, in everyday driving (except when in traffic) just how much do you use 1st gear? Type 9 standard ratios 1st: 3.65:1 2nd: 1.97:1 3rd: 1.37:1 4th: 1:1:1 5th: 0.82:1 2000E box standard ratios 1st: 2.972:1 2nd 2.01:1 3rd 1.397:1 4th 1:1 There are other 4 speeders such as the type E in the mk1 RS2000 but as you can see, apart from 1st the two I've shown aren't too dissimilar and if you are indeed doing long runs (as I do) then you'll welcome the 5th cog, what's your reason for disliking them so?
Toby Posted October 30, 2007 Report Posted October 30, 2007 What Vista said I believe 1st is the same in the Type 9 (5 speed) and the Type E (4 speed) or at least very similar, The 2000E has a longer, more "sporty" 1st (2.99:1) as does the special Rocket boxes (2.48:1) which is the hi spec version of the Type E (I think RS2000s have the 3.65 1st as well) the RS1800 had the Rocket box with the racey ratios (2.48 )
Admin Vista Posted October 31, 2007 Admin Report Posted October 31, 2007 Also Antz, don't forget that changing your final drive ratio will affect all your gears rather than just your engine rpm in top. For instance fitting a 3.54 in place of what you have now will drop your engine rpm for a given road speed in every gear (or higher road speed for the same rpm) so it will improve your fuel economy, but will also reduce your acceleration in every gear. Like em or not, a 5 speed is a better option for reasons of economy and ease of distance driving.
antz Posted October 31, 2007 Author Report Posted October 31, 2007 i know what your saying vista. the reason i hate 5 speeds is that every car i have ever driven with a speed has been utter crap. maybe its just the cars but itve grown to dislike it plus im so used to having the 4 speed nui the escort. i use 1st gear a lot cos i like to annoy boy racers and find that 1st gear is my best way of getting the edge over them whilst they slop into 2nd with their box im away still revving in 1st i cant decide plus i dont really want to chop my tunnel about
Admin Vista Posted October 31, 2007 Admin Report Posted October 31, 2007 Fair do's I understand, but if you change your final drive ratio instead then the Chavs will gain an advantage over you anyway as you'll be slower off the mark. Remember that a shorter first gear will give you better pick up with a small engine, that'll probably give you enough of a lead to change up to 2nd and still stay ahead anyway. Do you have to chop the tunnel about for a type 9? I know you have to alter the gearbox rear mounting point but I thought the tunnel was fine (if a little tight) as is. Mine is certainly a standard tunnel.
antz Posted October 31, 2007 Author Report Posted October 31, 2007 i thought you had to move the hole 2 inches? this is not gonna be an easy decision i wanna keep the 4 speed but i want the easieness and all rounded ness of the 5
BaileyMex Posted October 31, 2007 Report Posted October 31, 2007 My Mex has the 2000E Box as standard and I'm running a 4:1 Diff and yes on the motorway it aint that good, but I'm also running 50 profile tyres so that makes it even worse, If I were to swap for a 5 speed and swap the diff to a 3:54 and fit 16" wheels it would cruise a lot better at top speed............ but it's more fun my way on the back roads and dual carrageways
Admin Vista Posted October 31, 2007 Admin Report Posted October 31, 2007 i thought you had to move the hole 2 inches? this is not gonna be an easy decision i wanna keep the 4 speed but i want the easieness and all rounded ness of the 5 Sorry yes you do have to move the gear stick hole, I thought you meant you needed a wider tunnel. Moving the gearstick hole is actually quite straight forward though.
antz Posted October 31, 2007 Author Report Posted October 31, 2007 i thought you had to move the hole 2 inches? this is not gonna be an easy decision i wanna keep the 4 speed but i want the easieness and all rounded ness of the 5 Sorry yes you do have to move the gear stick hole, I thought you meant you needed a wider tunnel. Moving the gearstick hole is actually quite straight forward though. yeh but it involves a grinder and a welder.dont really wanna do that
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