H&H High Torque Starter motors: Anyone had problems?

[boXXer]

had mine for about 2 months now, and i think it may have gone "lazy". Changed the battery and it wasnt that.

 

Doesnt really want to spin the engine over that quickly, like the battery is going flat.

 

any help would be appreciated!

 

Cheers

Mike

[Retromotorsport]

sounds more like an earth lead ... earth the engine with a jumper cable to the battery terminal

[Fiesta Steve]

Had exactly the same problem with my daily drive.

 

Starter motor was very slow although it always started, until oneday it didn't

 

Turned out to be the main live cable from batt to starter motor was corroded in the battery terminal, just needed an inch chopping off and a bit of fresh wire exposing.

[boXXer]

ok thanks mate. i will try that. battery is in the boot, so where would be best to earth it to on the car? its curently on the firewall part behind the seats.

[Fiesta Steve]

If you mean the Battery to body earth I think they are best as short as possible so anywhere close to the battery will do.

[Toby]

Had a few brise ones that went down hill....

 

We changed the earths leads - battery to body - and body to engine first.

 

Recently I re-did the main power lead ends as fiesta steve suggested.

 

Eventually re-aligned the starter with the ring gear. It sounds so good I think there must have always been an issue with the bellhousing, which I have now modified by moving the fixing holes. (Flowtech)

 

I was told by my neighbour that if the solenoid doesn't see a really good voltage then the contacts get furry and this might be a problem if yours is going down hill.

 

[boXXer]

ok, just been outside with it and tried again.

 

Basically, it sounds as though its lazy, as when you turn the key, its hardluy turns the engine, then after a second or 2, a really nasty noise occurs with sounds like metal to metal. i can only imagine thats the pinion on the ring gear doing something dodgy.

 

starters not loose at all either.

 

would it be worth me taking out the motor and checking the pinion? the bell housing is aftermarket one afterall

[Toby]

As I say mate - wires are the easiest things so I'd start there, also H & H have probably got a test rig to check the motor.

 

Sounds very similar to mine. Mine used to be better if the battery was fully fully charged. Do you know your battery's good?

 

Apparently the furred up contacts in the solenoid from low battery power can really take loads of power to hold in. It's all a bit catch 22.

 

What happens to your head lighs during cranking?

 

If they don't dim then there is probably an engine to body earth problem.

 

Mine used to go out when the starter was dead!!

[boXXer]

not tried with the lights on.

 

battery is fully charged, as i did it yesterday.

[Dom]

Ive got that exact same problem, but with a boggo one

 

Put brand new cables and earths on, taken the starter off and apart cleaned it up and whacked it back on. The first time it whizzed over brilliantly but the second time it did it again and it's pretty dead now, battery is brand new too

[dodgydoughnut]

honestly people is almost always dodgy earth or poor cables, make sure your extra certain before taking the stater motor back , if need be run a spare battery to the stater on jump leads and turn the key.

[marky4]

i have same problem with my brise starter motor

checked all leads, connections, the battery is in the boot but also earthed in boot, checked it all but starter is very slow turning over and after 4/6 goes the new heavy duty battery is flat

[bortaf]

It's usually the leads (jump lead test normaly checks taht one out), if not the main live post on the starter can burn out and come loose inside (wiggle the lead to check that) but on high torque starters like diesel ones i've found it's usually the solenoid that burns out first, diesel transits and escorts are bad for it

 

If it's a square bodied toyota style starter they go the same on the origional aplications (space cruiser ect) though TBH on the square type in escorts you usually hear the pinion gears have fallen off or shreaded, i guess thats the part they change?

[boXXer]

right, took the starter out yesterday, and the ring gear looks like its been chewed slightly. Its always been ok though to be honest. i think its where the starter has given up and just spun the pinion on the outside of the teeth.

 

also, i had 4 leads going onto the starter. 1 was from the battery, 2 of them went onto the alternator (dunno why), and there was another red one that went into to loom. is that right?

 

today im going to go and buy a load of new ring connectors, and change the power lead from the battery. see what happens.

[Toby]

i have same problem with my brise starter motor

checked all leads, connections, the battery is in the boot but also earthed in boot, checked it all but starter is very slow turning over and after 4/6 goes the new heavy duty battery is flat

 

This sound identical to the problems I've had.

 

How old is your Brise? What bell housing have you got?

 

I must have had 6 or so. (probably lasting 6 months and only 20 -100 starts each) All with this symptom. The battery was flat quickly, slow to turn over, click click click, noisey in mesh etc etc.

 

This re-mesh / realignment I did recently has been amazing. Quiet - unbelievably quiet! No problems so far!! (fingers crossed).

 

As a side issue Brise have confessed to having had an issue in the past with a wire coming loose inside a few modifications ago.

 

Who else has a Brise? Any problems? I have a friend about to put one on his rally car. I am watching this space!!

[Toby]

right, took the starter out yesterday, and the ring gear looks like its been chewed slightly. Its always been ok though to be honest. i think its where the starter has given up and just spun the pinion on the outside of the teeth.

 

also, i had 4 leads going onto the starter. 1 was from the battery, 2 of them went onto the alternator (dunno why), and there was another red one that went into to loom. is that right?

 

today im going to go and buy a load of new ring connectors, and change the power lead from the battery. see what happens.

 

I guess the two going to the alternater is so the charge from the alternator goes back down the fat wire to your battery. And perhaps one is for luck!! (or they're not very fat)

 

Does that make sence?

 

It should be (read is on mine) One fat fooker from the battery for the motors turning force and one thin one to the solenoid. The solenoid meshes the pinion into the ring gear and then, only when it's meshed does the turning force happen from the motor.

 

So the solenoid does two things. It thrusts the pinion in, then makes the main current circuit, allowing power to the motor. If these contacts get furry the motor doesn't see full voltage.

[BaileyMex]

I've got a H&H High Torque starter, had it for a while now and it seems ok so far

 

|MUCH better than the standard one

[deltamal]

Had similar probs with mine, am running YB cossie with T5 box, standard motor was having a problem with the compression, (12.5:1) got an ht motor supposedly to my set up, was fine for about a month then devoloped a progressivley worse metal to metal noise, the motor had chewed up the ring gear, got a new ring gear through Ford (had the same profile and no. of teeth as the old one) but the profile of the teeth on the starter was wrong, sent the motor back with the new ring gear, it was returned with the correct gear on the motor, no more problems! guess the first one may have been for a Pinto T5 set up.

[marky4]

i have same problem with my brise starter motor

checked all leads, connections, the battery is in the boot but also earthed in boot, checked it all but starter is very slow turning over and after 4/6 goes the new heavy duty battery is flat

 

This sound identical to the problems I've had.

 

How old is your Brise? What bell housing have you got?

 

I must have had 6 or so. (probably lasting 6 months and only 20 -100 starts each) All with this symptom. The battery was flat quickly, slow to turn over, click click click, noisey in mesh etc etc.

 

This re-mesh / realignment I did recently has been amazing. Quiet - unbelievably quiet! No problems so far!! (fingers crossed).

 

As a side issue Brise have confessed to having had an issue in the past with a wire coming loose inside a few modifications ago.

 

Who else has a Brise? Any problems? I have a friend about to put one on his rally car. I am watching this space!!

 

my brise was already on the car when i brought it so i would guess 3 years + old.

the bell houseing on mine is an alloy one, think i might give brise aring tommorrow as they have a test and repair service to see how much it is as a new one is £195+vat

[Toby]

With regards to brise, they are dear I think about £50 / hr but they'll almost definately be able to fix it. Trouble is a few £50's and a few bits and you're getting close to a new one.

 

Last time I sent mine back, I had to replace my ring gear for £30-40 had a new pinion and they had to glue a magnet back on the inside of the motor and it was £150 ish from memory.

 

Is it an inline one or the one with the solenoid on the side? The inline one isn't too difficult to take the end off and get at the contacts.

 

I have never had any success with the main screws, they're loctited in, tend to break (they advise warming) and then everything goes PING!! and you have to send it back anyway!!!

[Guest MK1gaz]

I've got a brand new scrap one you can buy , it caught fire after a few minutes of trying to turn my engine over

[marky4]

With regards to brise, they are dear I think about £50 / hr but they'll almost definately be able to fix it. Trouble is a few £50's and a few bits and you're getting close to a new one.

 

Last time I sent mine back, I had to replace my ring gear for £30-40 had a new pinion and they had to glue a magnet back on the inside of the motor and it was £150 ish from memory.

 

Is it an inline one or the one with the solenoid on the side? The inline one isn't too difficult to take the end off and get at the contacts.

 

I have never had any success with the main screws, they're loctited in, tend to break (they advise warming) and then everything goes PING!! and you have to send it back anyway!!!

 

it's an inline one

[boXXer]

hmmmm, dont sound promising does it.

 

Gunna change all the wiring tonight, and if that doesnt work, im gunna take it to Retromotorsport as he can re-align/check the mesh, and get the starter checked next to where he is based.

[Guest MK1gaz]

All those high geared starters out there won't last 5 mins UNLESS your engine doesn't really need one (has sensible compression) . A man in the trade at a mega parts supplier gets 4 out of 5 geared starters he sells back every month without fail and talked me out of buying another one !!!!!! . If you've got a sensible engine C.R. then just use a standard one , if you've got a mega high C.R. race motor that doesn't start on the button when cold then 24v starting is the only way

[boXXer]

think mines 12:1