Throttle body Conversions, pro's + cons?

[boXXer]

as above please!

 

anyone using it on here?

[Guest MK1gaz]

i've got full engine management and all i'll say is fooooooook me does it pinch all your money !!!!!!!

[ZetecVan 2.0]

^^^ what he says...

 

What with throttle bodies, injectors and an ECU. Then you have to wire it all in.. Then fix it when the ECU blows up (megasquirt), get new injectors because you've got the wrong type. Fix the ECU again because it blows up before you've fitted the new injectors.

 

However, I am still very pleased with it.

[kevmk2]

Change of fuel system costs a bomb on its own, running extra return pipe to the tank, fuel pump and filter etc etc. Can get expensive to be honest, but worth it for drive-ability

[Guest MK1gaz]

there's lots of engine management myths as well which i can now crush for you !!!!!!!

1= your car never goes out of tune on management . This is bollox because everything wears/moves when you drive it , mines been set up a few months back and is now running too rich so needs doing again .

2= your car will start up and idle like a dream no matter what the temperature outside . This is bollox unless you spend every morning for weeks programming the ecu to different air temps and cold start maps . I have to sit in the garage for a few minutes holding the revs up or it stalls and jerks down the road like a kangeroo !!!!!!!!

3= You'll get more "peak" power . This is bollox as the engine only sees air + fuel so it doesn't care where it comes from , carbs on full throttle will do the same job .

4= your car if fitted with race cams etc will drive nicer . Yes it will BUT only if it's programmed/mapped by a professional with all the gear at £90 an hour who knows what he's doing

So to re-cap is it worth doing Yes and no . Yes , if you've got a race engine on the street which needs all the help it can get to drive nice but i wouldn't bother otherwise to be honest . Budget for £2500-£3000 to do a proper job with new bits and allow plenty of time before it all works !!!!!!!!

[ZetecVan 2.0]

2= your car will start up and idle like a dream no matter what the temperature outside . This is bollox unless you spend every morning for weeks programming the ecu to different air temps and cold start maps . I have to sit in the garage for a few minutes holding the revs up or it stalls and jerks down the road like a kangeroo !!!!!!!!

 

Tell me about it!!

[boXXer]

hmmmm, i always though they were good from cold, and stayed in sync, unlike carbs do.

 

i use the car every day, so surely i'd probably save fuel costs in the future against my old carbs? i'd also get a bit back for my 48 setup, as they are pretty new.

 

its not nice to drive in traffic on the 48's, and i thought TB's would help cure this?

 

sounds like they are a bad move so far, lol.

[boXXer]

what about sound aswell? very important, lol. Do they sound as good?

 

im thinking of rasing compression a bit aswell, so this mixed with some TB's might see me another 5 hp at a push maybe?

[kevmk2]

Are you on cast pistons still? 190bhp is about the limit on those i think.

The T.B's sound good still, Arron said he put some on a 2.3 pinto recently and he said they picked up from lower down the rev range much better than on carbs

The problem with cold start is because you cant run an idle control valve with them, so hard to get them to idle properly from cold.

[boXXer]

i seee. Im on steel rods and wossner pistons mate, so that aint an issue.

 

hmmmmm, what to do. Either spend 2k on that, or some nice new compomotive CXN's for my 3dr instead....

[Toby]

im thinking of rasing compression a bit aswell, so this mixed with some TB's might see me another 5 hp at a push maybe?

 

Better check with Vulcan (they built yours didn't they?) about raising the CR - it's a game of diminishing returns anyway, so don't just keep piling it in!! Eventually you'll hit melt down!!

[boXXer]

already spoken today about it

[Toby]

[ZetecVan 2.0]

Like Gaz says, you have to spend time setting up the cold start enrichments for every temp range. I've got mine something like, but you can't start it and drive off. You start it. Blip the throttle so it doesn't stall. Wait a few seconds. Blip it again. Then you can drive off after about 10 seconds.

 

As for sound, here's my van before I had it rolling roaded.

 

 

and here it is after

 

[spitbarnatt]

Change of fuel system costs a bomb on its own, running extra return pipe to the tank, fuel pump and filter etc etc. Can get expensive to be honest, but worth it for drive-ability

 

I never budgeted for this when I changed my engine cost about £300-350 to do it properly.

[Guest MK1gaz]

hmmmm, i always though they were good from cold, and stayed in sync, unlike carbs do.

 

i use the car every day, so surely i'd probably save fuel costs in the future against my old carbs? i'd also get a bit back for my 48 setup, as they are pretty new.

 

its not nice to drive in traffic on the 48's, and i thought TB's would help cure this?

 

sounds like they are a bad move so far, lol.

They will work 100% from cold if you put the mapping time in . The ecu will only do what you tell it so the more time/money you spend programming it the better . It will drive nicer in traffic on management if the mapping is correct (mine drives loverly) so as yours is a highly tuned street car then it's worth doing once you accept the costs and grief doing it . They sound exactly the same as DCOE carbs so no worries about the noise and you will save fuel but it will be minimal mate . A well set up carb engine is still pretty effecient and only a 100% sorted injection engine will out perform it but it will cost big bucks

[4parajon]

Blazin have you spoke to Neil about this???

We've had the odd chat about this subject over mine (mapping that is not TB's) and there's a local firm near you he is supposed to be the danglies doodahs. You have probably heard of him Mark Shead, MA Developments, he's just put an Autronic system on a cossie and apparently once its mapped its done and if it ever needs doing again its free. Think the Autronic system cost about £2500 - £3k though but that was for a cossie, I dont know whether they would do yours.

[Rick]

crikey sounds like a wallet busting upgrade....

[boXXer]

Blazin have you spoke to Neil about this???

We've had the odd chat about this subject over mine (mapping that is not TB's) and there's a local firm near you he is supposed to be the danglies doodahs. You have probably heard of him Mark Shead, MA Developments, he's just put an Autronic system on a cossie and apparently once its mapped its done and if it ever needs doing again its free. Think the Autronic system cost about £2500 - £3k though but that was for a cossie, I dont know whether they would do yours.

 

Yeah i know who he is, who doesnt! lol. He mapped Rods 200mph saff. He is just around the back of where i live. I saw the cossie your on about when i was at Neils. Its a Moonstone 3dr, and when he left, he had the anti lag on, and it sounded the nuts

 

Think i may give it a miss as im looking at 3k to do it, and TBH, i could buy a cossie lump, and stg1 chip it for that.

[4parajon]

Blazin have you spoke to Neil about this???

We've had the odd chat about this subject over mine (mapping that is not TB's) and there's a local firm near you he is supposed to be the danglies doodahs. You have probably heard of him Mark Shead, MA Developments, he's just put an Autronic system on a cossie and apparently once its mapped its done and if it ever needs doing again its free. Think the Autronic system cost about £2500 - £3k though but that was for a cossie, I dont know whether they would do yours.

 

Yeah i know who he is, who doesnt! lol. He mapped Rods 200mph saff. He is just around the back of where i live. I saw the cossie your on about when i was at Neils. Its a Moonstone 3dr, and when he left, he had the anti lag on, and it sounded the nuts

 

Think i may give it a miss as im looking at 3k to do it, and TBH, i could buy a cossie lump, and stg1 chip it for that.

 

thats the one, would have been surprised if you had'nt heard of him to be honest.

It is a lot of money though is'nt it. I thought the same as well, maybe in a few years when I'm lookin at an up-grade.

I will say this though for my old management on my cossie, regardless of how warm/cold it was it always started on the button and if left to idle on its own would jump up and down the revs for about 10 sec's and then settle down. I know there's been a couple of posts on here saying there's was shite at that when mine was quite good...........it was the engine that was shite

[boXXer]

what management was that though mate? as the Weber L and P series ECU's are brilliant anyway. i have a L6 in my 3dr, and it runs lovely. Never hunts around on idle, or anything like that.

 

[RChambers]

My zetec always used to start first time everytime without touching the throttle and it was never properly setup. The emerald ecu I use can do idle control by adjusting the ignition timing so the idle was rock solid

 

And throttle bodies will give more peak power as they don't have a restrictive venturi and you are more flexible where you add fuel (injectors in the trumpet for max high rpm power, near the inlet valves for more midrange and economy).

 

As I used my car everyday (only car) I saved loads in fuel and it went a long way to paying for the cost in just one year of use!

[boXXer]

how much was your whole kit mate?

[Guest MK1gaz]

I will say this though for my old management on my cossie, regardless of how warm/cold it was it always started on the button and if left to idle on its own would jump up and down the revs for about 10 sec's and then settle down. I know there's been a couple of posts on here saying there's was shite at that when mine was quite good...........it was the engine that was shite

Your turbo cossie wasn't on an aftermarket ecu + throttle bodies though mate , it was on a standard production car ecu/map which has had 1000's of hours of development by a major motor manufactor . If you fit a new out the box system then it's only as good as the time you spend programming it at £90 an hour !!!!!!! .........

[zetecmk2]

My zetec always used to start first time everytime without touching the throttle and it was never properly setup. The emerald ecu I use can do idle control by adjusting the ignition timing so the idle was rock solid

 

And throttle bodies will give more peak power as they don't have a restrictive venturi and you are more flexible where you add fuel (injectors in the trumpet for max high rpm power, near the inlet valves for more midrange and economy).

 

As I used my car everyday (only car) I saved loads in fuel and it went a long way to paying for the cost in just one year of use!

ditto apart from the economy bit (think thats my right foot though)