anti-dive kits

[countrybumpkin]

 

I’m not going to argue wit you even though I think you are being rather rude, I think you have ruined what should have been a nice discussion on anti-dive kits

 

so the word disscussion means.......

 

as for ruining it yeah nice one

 

with a discution you take on other peoples ideas and thoughts on a subject then relate them to your own NOT say that its all total rubbish and everyone is a 'mug'

[BIG G]

The way it was meant as my reply post was that we are all mugs me included and if me being brash saves a fellow oldskooler some money great that is my opinion and wasnt taking the piss out of any one individual all of us are mugs when it comes to our cars. Trial and error is an expensive way to learn for all of us. Mate

[countrybumpkin]

i know your only trying to help but its the way you wrote it fair enough it didnt work for you but a lot of people have posted saying they feel it makes a difference and i personaly know people that have them that feel they make a differnce, you say that instead of an a/d kit use higher poundage springs, this is fine but if you want to keep some coumfort in the ride then the a/d kit compensates for the softer springs when brakeing

[mk1super]

I dont think al bother with em just get rock ard springs cheers BIG G

[vibrating_Cake]

anyway... great bit of kit, may aswel replace the bushes while ur there!

(btw this is on a 2.0 capri with 190lb springs up front so dont tell me to go stiffer cause the car dives, its to do with roll centres pitch n dive centres not the stiffness of the front springs!

 

Your 2.0 capri weighs more than the QE2 carrying the paverotti family so using only 190lb springs it will dive on heavy braking .....so i am telling you that by getting the propper spring rates on your car will stop dive not a bit of 30 quid bent tin

 

how about less than a ton on the weighbridge m8.

iirc thats less than a standard mk2.

also a lot less than a pintoed mk2.... i dont run a v6 for a reason, i run a 4 cyl alu engine.

 

this is coming from a guy with "time to trash me round the ringroad" in his sig who's car has probably never seen a track---or any REAL power in its life.

 

anti dive kit works, look at the physics and how an anti-roll bar works then come back to me.

its just something ford didnt do cause of the ground clearance of the anti roll bar (which i have copped on a few rocks n kurbs before now lol)

 

 

I dont think al bother with em just get rock ard springs cheers BIG G

 

what you saying by rock hard springs?

you'll have less ride comfort and less roll, and depending on what engine is in there bump steer etc lol,

dont be going too stiff =o)

p.s. dont be going for it just cause one loudmouth shows off his opinion with no fact and 4-5 members actually have them and have noticed the difference

[Retromotorsport]

Calm down ....

 

 

no anti dive kit = the arb working angles can be front higher than TCA pickup, now when you apply the brakes, the wheel wants to move back, ie pulling on the arb, because the arb is sloping, it moves in an arc.. and this is upwards, TCA up, body down... what this does is adds neg camber, so the wheel rolls onto its inner edge, ie less tyre footprint, less braking grip.

 

Get a pen and dangle it from your left fingertips.. then pull the bottom with your right hand, the pen raises up till its level, thats effectivly what happens on the car.

 

Also the arb flex'es in the middle, allowing the TCA to move back, which will effect toe settings.

 

With the Anti-dive = the arb is re-postioned so it sit more level, when the brakes are applied, the front wants to dive, which means the tca pick up wants to go higher than the front pickup.. get the pen again, and hold it horizontal, whit the right hand, lift it so its sitting at an angle, left side low, right side high..this is dive.. now pull the right side... the pen goes level, this is Anti-dive.

 

Also with the center bracket, the bar dosnt bend in the middle, so toe settings are much more stable.

 

I would personally avoid using "rock ard" springs... A; its dangerous, its a not good for handling. B; its a horrible ride

[danny69]

Unfortunatley most Capri anti dive kits don`t have the middle bracket which seems like a missed opportunity to me.

 

Also bear in mind that if you car is already 2" lower than standard you have already dialled in more anti dive than the anti dive kit would give you.

 

I have one for my capri but I may not use it straight away, I`ll see how the ARB sits without it first.

 

They weigh a fair few kilos and being so far forward that is not ideal so I don`t want it on there just for the sake of it.

 

I`ll see how it goes without first, as it will be running pretty low at the front anyway.

[vibrating_Cake]

Calm down ....

 

With the Anti-dive = the arb is re-postioned so it sit more level, when the brakes are applied, the front wants to dive, which means the tca pick up wants to go higher than the front pickup.. get the pen again, and hold it horizontal, whit the right hand, lift it so its sitting at an angle, left side low, right side high..this is dive.. now pull the right side... the pen goes level, this is Anti-dive.

 

Also with the center bracket, the bar dosnt bend in the middle, so toe settings are much more stable.

 

I would personally avoid using "rock ard" springs... A; its dangerous, its a not good for handling. B; its a horrible ride

 

didnt know bout the toe-in/out because of the bend in the middle, but that does make sence!.......

less dynamic toe=higher stability....

 

hmmmmmmmm, i want one for my capri (centre mount)

interesting. how much difference do you think itll make to dynamic toe in/out with the centre mounting? doubt itd be much?

[danny69]

The earlier models had an ARB that wasn`t kinked on the ends where it mounted the crossmember, and as a result it would slide through the bush on heavy cornering.

I had a 3.0S and the bar was polished abut 15mm either side of the bush, showing that it was moving through the bush by that amount.

 

I later fitted an anti dive kit with double width bushes, centre mount and the kinked 2.8 ARB and this never moved.

[richie_stix]

heated discussion! nice one retro motorsport for giving the 'real' answer (by real i mean scientific, even tried the pen thing, nice analagy)...

 

my two cents... even if it doesn't 'work', by making one feel more confident in corners, it 'works' in that YOU can drive your car faster!

 

I will prob get one for my capri, dives like an italian footabller, anyone kind enough to recomend one?

[NeilT]

Wow

 

cheers for the info one and all i wont opions and i curtanly got them lol

 

big thats to Retromotorsport for explaining the sicens behinde anti-dive kits i think ill give it a good seems the capri boys are in favour of these bits of kit

[5hane]

hmmmmmmmm, i want one for my capri (centre mount)

 

is it not the same as an escort then ?

[BIG G]

this is coming from a guy with "time to trash me round the ringroad" in his sig who's car has probably never seen a track---or any REAL power in its life.

 

 

 

 

TIT

[BIG G]

Calm down ....

 

 

no anti dive kit = the arb working angles can be front higher than TCA pickup, now when you apply the brakes, the wheel wants to move back, ie pulling on the arb, because the arb is sloping, it moves in an arc.. and this is upwards, TCA up, body down... what this does is adds neg camber, so the wheel rolls onto its inner edge, ie less tyre footprint, less braking grip.

 

Get a pen and dangle it from your left fingertips.. then pull the bottom with your right hand, the pen raises up till its level, thats effectivly what happens on the car.

 

Also the arb flex'es in the middle, allowing the TCA to move back, which will effect toe settings.

 

With the Anti-dive = the arb is re-postioned so it sit more level, when the brakes are applied, the front wants to dive, which means the tca pick up wants to go higher than the front pickup.. get the pen again, and hold it horizontal, whit the right hand, lift it so its sitting at an angle, left side low, right side high..this is dive.. now pull the right side... the pen goes level, this is Anti-dive.

 

Also with the center bracket, the bar dosnt bend in the middle, so toe settings are much more stable.

 

I would personally avoid using "rock ard" springs... A; its dangerous, its a not good for handling. B; its a horrible ride

 

 

Thats what i said.

as for rock hard springs not what i said

[vibrating_Cake]

hmmmmmmmm, i want one for my capri (centre mount)

 

is it not the same as an escort then ?

 

nooooo =o( but its the same principle involved lol.

 

 

load of crap save your money

 

THATS what you said, not a helpful answer as retromotorsports guy has given, now go sit in your mug little boy and learn some manners

[Vista]

Enough insults from both sides or you'll all be sent to the naughty room

 

Retro, nice explanation but I didn't understand a word of it, suspension geometry is certainly my weak subject.

[BIG G]

THATS what you said, not a helpful answer as retromotorsports guy has given, now go sit in your mug little boy and learn some manners

 

nice bloke

[Retromotorsport]

Enough insults from both sides or you'll all be sent to the naughty room

 

Retro, nice explanation but I didn't understand a word of it, suspension geometry is certainly my weak subject.

 

Vista, you build boats ... and i havnt a clue which side is starboard, and whats port ... so we're equal

[mk1super]

Enough insults from both sides or you'll all be sent to the naughty room

 

Retro, nice explanation but I didn't understand a word of it, suspension geometry is certainly my weak subject.

 

Vista, you build boats ... and i havnt a clue which side is starboard, and whats port ... so we're equal

 

I build models and you both confuse me

[andypipe]

Ok heres my justification for my comments.....

 

 

The reason is that if your car is a rally car on +1" or +2" springs and your roll bar is at a raised angle it is to bring it back to the designed angle to kinda bring the geometry sort of true again so the car wont natually dive. My car is lowered by 2.5" so having the complete money wasting piece of shit on my car was a waste of time and more importantly money..

 

spend money on harder springs if your car is diving not gymics.

 

As for those that think they work ...........I have a bit of kit that takes 25 seconds off lap times and 2 seconds on the quarter mile its only £45 and bolts on the roof

 

 

 

 

Ive learnt the hard way with my car but please learn by others mistakes as its cheaper i wish i had

 

When lowering a car by that much you completely throw out the geometry of the car, so should repostion other suspension pick ups to comensate.

 

Putting harder springs on just masks the problem, not cure it. Putting harder springs on will more often than not induce understeer

[SmokeEm]

What a great debate

[NeilT]

What a great debate

 

very true been very insightfal

 

apart from all the name calling

[SmokeEm]

What a great debate

 

very true been very insightfal

 

apart from all the name calling

 

Agreed but funny though

 

I don't know Mr Cake but I do know BIG G and he was just being himself, i.e straight to the point. A nicer guy does not exist but I'm sure Mr Cake will see that for himself in time

[TwoLitrePinto]

well ive certainly learned something from this one!

 

maybe the ARB on a standard escort is already straight? or straighter than a capri one!

 

i have noticed that everyone who has an escort says they dont do nothing, everyone with a capri says they do? surely that means they work on a capri as the capri needs an anti dive kit more than an escort does!

 

[brettp]

i had one from burton and the fit was crap gave up in the end