Save our heritage!!!!!....*protest and rave*

[Vista]

No place for Racism on OSF guys. Having spent quite a bit of time out in the middle east as part of the military, I feel better qualified than most on here to say that muslim fanatics are not my favourite people BUT that does not make all muslims dirty rag eds, ok?

[Dr Feelgood]

well said vista

[Trevmk3]

No place for Racism on OSF guys. Having spent quite a bit of time out in the middle east as part of the military, I feel better qualified than most on here to say that muslim fanatics are not my favourite people BUT that does not make all muslims dirty rag eds, ok?

 

that was the point i was trying to make but i would of put it in a blundering way that didnt make sense.

 

 

anyway back to the topic which is the bridge

[Kelvfoozinda]

Look at why it was listed, there can be a number of reasons, usually its because of historical importance or the method employed in its construction, buildings dont get listed because they look nice.

 

I don't give a monkeys why it was listed I just don't want to have to look at it as it's pig ugly.

 

Here's English Heritages answer as to why it was listed, it's such a BS statement that I reckon E.H. must be staffed by politicians. What's innovative about an oblong concrete block with windows?

 

Q: WHY DID ENGLISH HERITAGE LIST THE CIVIC CENTRE?

 

A: The Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) listed this building on the advice of English Heritage. As the Government’s lead advisory body on heritage, our role is to give expert advice on whether a building has met the strict criteria for listing and is therefore considered to be nationally architecturally important. This is done very carefully and fairly and is not a subjective judgement. If a building meets these criteria we have a statutory obligation to say so.

 

English Heritage recommended that the Civic Centre was worthy of listing because of its innovative design. It is part of a very complete set of civic buildings with fine internal decoration and has unusually rich art work in the Council House, which is themed around Plymouth’s history. The building is balanced, uplifting and powerful and has a landmark position at the Southern end of the area, which formed the focus of Patrick Abercrombie’s ‘Plan for Plymouth’. Experts at the 20th Century Society and in Government also agree that this is a nationally important building.

 

And here's the voice of plymouth that was completely ignored by E.H.

 

10 reasons why the Council feels the Civic Centre should not be listed:

 

The building is not of national architectural importance. The final construction was a diluted version of its original design with cheaper materials, altered cladding and major changes to the roof.

 

It has never been a popular building locally or among many leading architects. On the opening of the Civic Centre Peter Rawstone wrote in the architecture magazine ‘Topic’ in August 1962: “The climax of the rebuilding of blitz-battered Plymouth came with the opening of the City’s new £1,600,000 civic centre by the Queen. But, architecturally, the phoenix has still to rise. The 14-storey centre, a myriad of offices for the corporation officials, has left Plymouth deader than it was. When workers go home and the lights go out this glass hulk becomes as lifeless as a galleon without wind.”

 

The building has been substantially altered over the years. Alterations include new cladding panels, partitions and dividing walls, extensions and entrances.

 

Repairing a listed building the size and age of the Civic Centre would put a massive burden on local taxpayers. The estimated £40 million cost of refurbishing the listed building will have a very serious impact on Council services and potentially jobs.

 

It is environmentally unfriendly. The cost of heating such an inefficient building is huge. The listed building status will mean it will now be extremely difficult to make it environmentally friendly.

 

It is falling apart, due to issues with the way it was built and its age. There is extensive concrete spalling caused by water getting into the steel underneath the concrete and pushing the concrete out. The windows are inadequate and all need replacing, the original lifts need expensive maintenance just to keep them going.

 

It occupies an important city centre site which would be wasted by keeping it solely for an inefficient office block. Demolishing the Civic Centre would allow a new iconic building with a range of uses that would attract investment and people into this part of the city centre.

 

Even after an expensive refurbishment the Civic Centre would not meet the Council’s needs. When the Civic Centre was built the Council had a fraction of the staff it currently has and the Council is now responsible for many more services. A modern customer-focused authority needs better facilities than the Civic Centre can provide.

 

English Heritage also says that it embodies the hopes and aspirations of post-war Plymouth, but we have a bold new vision that shows the spirit of Plymouth now, in the 21st Century. The building is of its time but has had its time. The listing sends a message that Plymouth is looking backwards when it should look forward with confidence, vision and leadership to the future.

 

The people of Plymouth are not in favour of keeping it. While there are a range of views about the building and some people do support the listing, the vast majority of comments to the Council and the local media following the listing have been strongly against it.

 

TBH, its probably full of asbestos and would cost a fortune to demolish! Its taken them almost a year to get rid of the meridien studio's (old bit of ITV) in southampton, and that was a tiny building!

[mk1super]

Im sure with a lick of paint it would be a nice bridge, and in some cases old buildings should be kept, possibley converted inside for another use than it had before, breaks up the otherwise dull box's with windows we have being built now.

As for the religion thing its all a con your born live get taxed die. Any good stuff that happens is a bonus bad stuff well thems the breaks

[Trevmk3]

its the same round Derby although they have saved a few good looking buildings and are regenerating them to be used for something rather than pulling them down, the roundhouse for example has been bought by derby college and has been reworked to be part of one of the colleges and has had a new building next to it

 

how it was

 

 

 

how they are getting it to look with the new building

 

[Mr2Caps]

Look at why it was listed, there can be a number of reasons, usually its because of historical importance or the method employed in its construction, buildings dont get listed because they look nice.

 

I don't give a monkeys why it was listed I just don't want to have to look at it as it's pig ugly.

 

Here's English Heritages answer as to why it was listed, it's such a BS statement that I reckon E.H. must be staffed by politicians. What's innovative about an oblong concrete block with windows?

 

Q: WHY DID ENGLISH HERITAGE LIST THE CIVIC CENTRE?

 

A: The Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) listed this building on the advice of English Heritage. As the Government’s lead advisory body on heritage, our role is to give expert advice on whether a building has met the strict criteria for listing and is therefore considered to be nationally architecturally important. This is done very carefully and fairly and is not a subjective judgement. If a building meets these criteria we have a statutory obligation to say so.

 

English Heritage recommended that the Civic Centre was worthy of listing because of its innovative design. It is part of a very complete set of civic buildings with fine internal decoration and has unusually rich art work in the Council House, which is themed around Plymouth’s history. The building is balanced, uplifting and powerful and has a landmark position at the Southern end of the area, which formed the focus of Patrick Abercrombie’s ‘Plan for Plymouth’. Experts at the 20th Century Society and in Government also agree that this is a nationally important building.

 

And here's the voice of plymouth that was completely ignored by E.H.

 

10 reasons why the Council feels the Civic Centre should not be listed:

 

The building is not of national architectural importance. The final construction was a diluted version of its original design with cheaper materials, altered cladding and major changes to the roof.

 

It has never been a popular building locally or among many leading architects. On the opening of the Civic Centre Peter Rawstone wrote in the architecture magazine ‘Topic’ in August 1962: “The climax of the rebuilding of blitz-battered Plymouth came with the opening of the City’s new £1,600,000 civic centre by the Queen. But, architecturally, the phoenix has still to rise. The 14-storey centre, a myriad of offices for the corporation officials, has left Plymouth deader than it was. When workers go home and the lights go out this glass hulk becomes as lifeless as a galleon without wind.”

 

The building has been substantially altered over the years. Alterations include new cladding panels, partitions and dividing walls, extensions and entrances.

 

Repairing a listed building the size and age of the Civic Centre would put a massive burden on local taxpayers. The estimated £40 million cost of refurbishing the listed building will have a very serious impact on Council services and potentially jobs.

 

It is environmentally unfriendly. The cost of heating such an inefficient building is huge. The listed building status will mean it will now be extremely difficult to make it environmentally friendly.

 

It is falling apart, due to issues with the way it was built and its age. There is extensive concrete spalling caused by water getting into the steel underneath the concrete and pushing the concrete out. The windows are inadequate and all need replacing, the original lifts need expensive maintenance just to keep them going.

 

It occupies an important city centre site which would be wasted by keeping it solely for an inefficient office block. Demolishing the Civic Centre would allow a new iconic building with a range of uses that would attract investment and people into this part of the city centre.

 

Even after an expensive refurbishment the Civic Centre would not meet the Council’s needs. When the Civic Centre was built the Council had a fraction of the staff it currently has and the Council is now responsible for many more services. A modern customer-focused authority needs better facilities than the Civic Centre can provide.

 

English Heritage also says that it embodies the hopes and aspirations of post-war Plymouth, but we have a bold new vision that shows the spirit of Plymouth now, in the 21st Century. The building is of its time but has had its time. The listing sends a message that Plymouth is looking backwards when it should look forward with confidence, vision and leadership to the future.

 

The people of Plymouth are not in favour of keeping it. While there are a range of views about the building and some people do support the listing, the vast majority of comments to the Council and the local media following the listing have been strongly against it.

 

I do understand what you are trying to say, but planners and EH talk a different language to the rest of us, and I can see why the voice of Plymouth was ignored. In pure planning and listing terms the points raised are of no consequence. It doesn't mean they are of no importance or are not valid, but they are not the criteria on which properties are vetted for listing.

[bortaf]

tax man screws me too,

 

 

 

petitions have been made, protests in town have been done (all nothing todo with me) but still the council dont listen, be proud of your past and fight for your future

 

 

....there could well be a mosque there in a years time

 

wow a floating mosque

who cares if there a mosque there? unless you're mosqueist (is that a word?)

TBH i think mosques look better than most churches and not being a christian i really couldn't give a nuns chuff is there was a mosque strteched over the road 30 foot up in the air

[Dr Feelgood]

[emu]

Often people will look at a building and decide its ugly, so it gets knocked down and replaced with some super modern looking replacement.

 

Think about back in the sixties, god knows how many old victorian buildings were knocked down and replaced with massive futuristic concrete creations. That office block up there ^^^, The 'Get Carter' park in Gateshead, the Tricorn centre in portsmouth. All of those are /were widely disliked by the local residents 40 years down the line, in much the same way as no-one had any time for victorian buildings then.

 

The town were I live has changed massively at the hands of the town planners. Whilst I dont think that we should never ever knock down one building to build another, sometimes it is a shame what is lost in the process.

[andy a]

Living in the polyp far inside the anus just past the back of beyond I dont get to see much change, although one thing the local drainage board did a couple of years ago really affected us all, they cut the bank of the drain behind us and left the reeds on our side rather than the farmers side, the year after we just chucked wire up our side of the bank and gave them a day to think of the error of their ways while they stripped and rebuilt the cutter

 

Sorry for the random rant and thread hijack but its near the end of the holiday season and we're ahead of schedule at turning round the roadsigns so we get to send the tourists up dead end lanes with caravans they cant reverse, not sure how you can mesh this post into the thread but have a go anyways, if you cant manage it pop round and we'll have a nice cup of tea and a sandwich...

[Paul F]

...there could well be a mosque there in a years time

 

...and? What's the issue with that? Certainly makes no difference to me whether I see a church, mosque or synagogue... They're all equally irrelevant. But I guess people need somewhere to go to practice their quaint little traditions...

[Vista]

...there could well be a mosque there in a years time

 

...and? What's the issue with that? Certainly makes no difference to me whether I see a church, mosque or synagogue... They're all equally irrelevant. But I guess people need somewhere to go to practice their quaint little traditions...

 

In fairness, in the worlds current climate you're more likely to see religious zealots and fanatics congregating at mosques than you are synagogues or churches. If I had to have one of them built near me, the mosque would be my least preferred purely for the above reason.

[Dr Feelgood]

i think its the way the media portray everything, theres terrorists in every religion but just now its the muslims that are focused on, an example being a guy who claims to be a devout christian threatened to chop the head of a muslim every day until glasgow city council shut down the mosques and that got about a column inch if anything and if it had been the other way round he'd have been banged up and deported by now it seems like the media is running the country

[Vista]

i think its the way the media portray everything, theres terrorists in every religion but just now its the muslims that are focused on, an example being a guy who claims to be a devout christian threatened to chop the head of a muslim every day until glasgow city council shut down the mosques and that got about a column inch if anything and if it had been the other way round he'd have been banged up and deported by now it seems like the media is running the country

 

It probably got an inch because it was an idle threat that had very little probability of it ever being enacted. Muslim fanatics have a track record of carrying out their threats because however mistaken, they genuinely believe that they are on a mission from God. What's more, if you think deporting muslim fanatics is easy you're much mistaken. Abu Hamza is still here when he's actually wanted elsewhere for trial on terrorist charges. Omar Bakri Mohammed left voluntarily in 2005 when he thought he might be investigated but up till then had been allowed to run extremist organisations in the UK almost unchallenged for 15 - 20 years!

 

 

Anyway, i think we've digressed a bit.

[Dr Feelgood]

back to the bridge?

[Vista]

back to the bridge?

 

indeed, a few tons of scrap or an ageing beauty crying out for preservation? (aka Joanna Lumley)

[Paul F]

back to the bridge?

 

indeed, a few tons of scrap or an ageing beauty crying out for preservation? (aka Joanna Lumley)

 

If the bridge doesn't serve it's purpose then it probably shouldn't be there. Times change, cities evolve... I personally don't believe something deserves existance just because "it's old" or "it's always been there".

[Mr Sam]

i did not use the mosque term to start a race row after all a mosque is about as british as a church these days (for the books i do not support any religion and am more swayed to NO GODS NO MASTERS......punk/anachry views but thats irrelivant

 

 

the intent is to build a swimming pool in its place, as if there going to build a swimming pool on stilts spanning the canal and road??? so why cant the bridge stay, it only needs MINOR restoration and a lick of paint

 

 

the thread was started to try and remind people of britian (of all relegions races creeds poverty levels etc) we are letting the people in power rid us of our iconic structures and buildings that helped creat this country waht it was

 

i can understand why alot of you couldnt give a damn about a little old railway bridge in Leicester but look around your local towns and apreciate the history within them

 

 

 

 

peace out

[Trevmk3]

well cleared up Sam

 

as you said it is happening everywhere and it takes some people to appreciate stuff like that (i prefer old buildings and structure to new ones myself)

[Mr Sam]

just look at the Fourth rail bridge compaired to the Fourth road bridge, both a good few years old and engineering marvels but the railway one is probably double the age and requires a stupendeous upkeep

 

but at the end of the day its part of the face of Scotland, the face of Britain and as a whole i dont think we would like to say goodbye to it!

 

Leicesters Bowstring Bridge is just a brick in the wall....

 

 

 

 

 

i do not have a bridge fettish

[Vista]

Au contraire Sam, I breath a sigh of relief each and every time I say goodbye to Scotland

[Mr Sam]

hahahahah im patriotically english too although i did live up there for 10 years

[Vista]

hahahahah im patriotically english too although i did live up there for 10 years

 

As did I, I went to school in the east and the west and still go back their regularly as my brothers are still there.

[Mr Sam]

well one of the team contacted the paper anominously (sp) and as the paper is in favour to keep the bridge theyve given us a good write up and some good pictures

 

 

 

 

funny how the council have nothing to say on the matter and wont own up to removing it