newbee

[glenn ford]

hello, new member here, I am rebuilding a mk1 mexico, but with a twin cam motor, I am looking for any help in rebuilding the heater box, I took it apart while the body work was being completely restored, never took any pics !!!!, ( King idiot, I hear you say) and now I need some help

[Vista]

Welcome to OSF.

With the way things are going with mk1 values, I'd think twice about fitting a modern twin cam if it's a genuine Mexico. 

Not sure on the heater box question, sorry. 

[Monza]

Hi. Welcome to OSF.
Plenty of help and advice to be had on here. As Vista says mk1 Mexico's need to be restored as original imo. More so if you have correct engine. Not sure I'd have put zetec in if mine was a Mex but then each to his own.
I have a heater box that I don't need btw

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[HotRodMatt]

Welcome to OSF, these may help with your heater. Failing that, have you got a Haynes manual to look in? If not I could see in mine for you.

[glenn ford]

http://thanks guys, i am putting a lotus twin cam in it, so keeping away from all the new stuff

[glenn ford]

gt65 any chance of borrowing your heater so I can copy it ?

[RWL81P]

fantastic! normally id say to leave it with an XF. but putting a lotus twink in there can only add value.

[Jerrytom161]

21 hours ago, GT65 said:

Hi. Welcome to OSF.
Plenty of help and advice to be had on here. As Vista says mk1 Mexico's need to be restored as original imo. More so if you have correct engine. Not sure I'd have put zetec in if mine was a Mex but then each to his own.
I have a heater box that I don't need btw

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

I tend to agree leave as standard especially if it is original now . The changes that will be brought in next May i would be very careful on what you change , could end up de - valuing your car not increasing the value . Modded vehicles and “Q” plates come to mind as in another thread recently !!!,

[RWL81P]

54 minutes ago, Jerrytom161 said:

I tend to agree leave as standard especially if it is original now . The changes that will be brought in next May i would be very careful on what you change , could end up de - valuing your car not increasing the value . Modded vehicles and “Q” plates come to mind as in another thread recently !!!,

i think as said before, radical changes. eg chassis mods, bulkhead chops, spaceframes. 

[glenn ford]

to be honest, I don't think putting a lotus twin cam motor will make that much difference, the cars did have that engine fitted, so its not like I am putting a modern engine in it, and radically changing the whole spec of the car, as to values, I don't own classic cars because there worth anything, I own them because I like and enjoy them

[Ray]

1 hour ago, RWL81P said:

i think as said before, radical changes. eg chassis mods, bulkhead chops, spaceframes. 

obviously not read it or read it different to me then, change of engine, box, axle, brakes, and suspension are considered radical changes to its original design specification, just changing the engine, providing it meets below the 15% power to weight ratio will still keep you enough points points, however, upgrade everything else to cope with it, and your stuffed, but just change the engine for one over the 15% power to weight ratio, and your stuffed again, as that's then taken as a singular cause on its own, separate to the pointing system

that's how I read it

[Ray]

11 minutes ago, glenn ford said:

to be honest, I don't think putting a lotus twin cam motor will make that much difference, the cars did have that engine fitted, so its not like I am putting a modern engine in it, and radically changing the whole spec of the car, as to values, I don't own classic cars because there worth anything, I own them because I like and enjoy them

its not what engine your putting in, its the power to weight ratio change, and yes you are changing the spec of the car, it was lotus twin cams that had that engine, not Mexico's, so why not buy a lotus twin cam instead

[glenn ford]

well I don't need another escort, and as I had the engine lying around I thought it would be fun to put in it, so that's what I shall do, and if it means I have to have a Q plate then so be it, it is still an escort, whatever number plate goes on it, and I have the original engine, so if I need to sell it, I will offer the buyer the option of both

 

[glenn ford]

and no I have not read anything about changes to cars next may

[Vista]

27 minutes ago, Ray said:

its not what engine your putting in, its the power to weight ratio change, and yes you are changing the spec of the car, it was lotus twin cams that had that engine, not Mexico's, so why not buy a lotus twin cam instead

Technically you are right Ray.......but the mk1 Escort was available with that Engine from the factory, and with much more powerful ones too.

For example, if someone from the DVLA were to claim a mk1 RS2000 was uprated beyond that 115% value, the Owner could legitimately point out that they were available from the factory with higher numbers than that via the AVO special build program. 

[HotRodMatt]

Technically you are right Ray.......but the mk1 Escort was available with that Engine from the factory, and with much more powerful ones too.
For example, if someone from the DVLA were to claim a mk1 RS2000 was uprated beyond that 115% value, the Owner could legitimately point out that they were available from the factory with higher numbers than that via the AVO special build program. 

Is it not 115% of the individual car that has been uprated rather than the fact there were higher powered models available at the time? ie If your car was a 1300L but you've fitted a 1600 Xflow you couldn't just say "Ah, but the RS2000 had 100bhp which is more than the 1600 Xflow I've fitted"?

[Ray]

38 minutes ago, HotRodMatt said:

1 hour ago, Vista said:

Technically you are right Ray.......but the mk1 Escort was available with that Engine from the factory, and with much more powerful ones too.
For example, if someone from the DVLA were to claim a mk1 RS2000 was uprated beyond that 115% value, the Owner could legitimately point out that they were available from the factory with higher numbers than that via the AVO special build program. 

Is it not 115% of the individual car that has been uprated rather than the fact there were higher powered models available at the time? ie If your car was a 1300L but you've fitted a 1600 Xflow you couldn't just say "Ah, but the RS2000 had 100bhp which is more than the 1600 Xflow I've fitted"?

that's the way I read it as well, its about that particular car and the spec it was produced to, but also on a technicality, didn't the lotus twin cam go out of production in about 1970, in favour of the RS1600, so therefore you couldn't argue that it was available on a later car, and this has nothing to do with the DVLA, the government are just going to use the DVLA point system as an easy way to enable enforcement, which they have no choice in, as its been EU Legislation since 2012

As an aside, assuming we are just talking AVO cars for the moment, what engines were available under the special build program for each ??

[Ray]

1 hour ago, glenn ford said:

well I don't need another escort, and as I had the engine lying around I thought it would be fun to put in it, so that's what I shall do, and if it means I have to have a Q plate then so be it, it is still an escort, whatever number plate goes on it, and I have the original engine, so if I need to sell it, I will offer the buyer the option of both

 

I think you missed the point, the mex is a special model, and if you paid 25k for your mex, and you radically modify it so it ends up on a q plate, you will have de valued your car dramatically, and despite having the original parts, are unlikely to be able to have the q plate removed, therefore thrown a large part of your money down the drain, however if your lucky enough to have paid peanuts or had it donkeys years, then you've nothing to loose

or if you put the lotus twincam engine in a 1100L and do a few other mods, you will still get the q plate but would more than likely make a few quid

[Ray]

1 hour ago, glenn ford said:

and no I have not read anything about changes to cars next may

heres your bed time reading

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/roadworthiness-testing-for-vehicles-of-historic-interest

 

[Vista]

 

21 hours ago, Ray said:

that's the way I read it as well, its about that particular car and the spec it was produced to, but also on a technicality, didn't the lotus twin cam go out of production in about 1970, in favour of the RS1600, so therefore you couldn't argue that it was available on a later car, and this has nothing to do with the DVLA, the government are just going to use the DVLA point system as an easy way to enable enforcement, which they have no choice in, as its been EU Legislation since 2012

As an aside, assuming we are just talking AVO cars for the moment, what engines were available under the special build program for each ??

The special build program meant you coukd virtually buy what Ford were competing with on the rally stages direct from your dealer. Try doing that nowadays! Exhaust and carb upgrades, engine upgrades, axle and brake upgrades, bubble arches, basically how deep were your pockets. 

As to the question of 115%, wait till the DVLA get overwhelmed with judicial review requests when they start throwing people's cars out on minor technicalities like 115%, this despite having been on the road legally like that for many years. Their case will be especially weakened when it is easily demonstrable that there are other models of car in the same range that do have more power than the 115% value. It's a ridiculous arbitrary  figure that has been plucked out of the air to delineate between whether that car is safe or unsafe. 

Oh and as I read it, you don't have to prove the car was modified prior to 1988, just declare that it was. 

[glenn ford]

I think this all just relates to historic cars being MOTd if they are 40 years old, for example my 1959 MGA does not require an MOT, but I still get one done for it, because I want to make sure its road legal, for me and other road users, and yes I have a real mexico, and there is not a massive power increase from the crossflow to the twin cam, it just sounds nicer, so all those people who put twin webers on there mexicos, to get 140bhp, will have to take them off !!!!!

having read the piece now, it seems more like there just going to require cars, older than 40 years, that have been modified, with a Vauxhall red top twin cam, or zetecs and duratecs, to A get them MOTd as they wont be exempt, and B, also fit a Q plate, as it no longer meets a historic vehicle precedent, but I think putting in a humble twin cam, which was already fitted to the escort in period will be fine, and I promise to let you all know if it gets given a Q plate, and if its worth less, then so be it, because I will know its still a mexico

 

[Rich T]

11 hours ago, glenn ford said:

well I don't need another escort, and as I had the engine lying around I thought it would be fun to put in it, so that's what I shall do, and if it means I have to have a Q plate then so be it, it is still an escort, whatever number plate goes on it, and I have the original engine, so if I need to sell it, I will offer the buyer the option of both

 

If i had a Lotus twin cam sat kicking its heels, id do the same 

[stephens_xpack]

Nice one Glenn Ford - I agree with you, twin cams do sound lovely, pics of the build as you are doing it would be cool. Enjoy.....