Rules on OSFs in Germany?

[Bluesplus2s]

Evening all,
It's looking very likely that I shall be moving to Bavaria in the summer and I really want to take my Mk1 with me.
I'm looking for information regarding what the rules are for registering and running a modified Mk1 Escort in Germany and wondered if anyone on here had any experience or info.
The car isn't wildly modified, 2ltr Pinto, 5 speed, lowered on Mk2 front struts and rear axle with Mk2 brakes front and rear.
Any help would be gratefully received.
Cheers

[eeb43]

all welding repairs have to be done with whole panels no patchwork!

[Bluesplus2s]

Thanks for your reply.

That could create problems then as I only did part floor pans when I restored it and also sections of the petrol tank and spare wheel wells.

I have a feeling there are other patch repairs too.

[katana]

On 30/01/2019 at 20:54, Bluesplus2s said:

Thanks for your reply.

That could create problems then as I only did part floor pans when I restored it and also sections of the petrol tank and spare wheel wells.

I have a feeling there are other patch repairs too.

Surely if your welding is good and can be linished back smooth, painted and undersealed who would detect it - pulling carpets soundproofing etc is a lot of work to check a hunch? I've seen some blinding welding on panels on here that could be undetectable but conversely some other examples are well moody.

[eeb43]

23 minutes ago, katana said:

Surely if your welding is good and can be linished back smooth, painted and undersealed who would detect it - pulling carpets soundproofing etc is a lot of work to check a hunch? I've seen some blinding welding on panels on here that could be undetectable but conversely some other examples are well moody.

only repeating what a german told me about their rules and tuv

[Rally Pack 2000]

47 minutes ago, katana said:

Surely if your welding is good and can be linished back smooth, painted and undersealed who would detect it - pulling carpets soundproofing etc is a lot of work to check a hunch? I've seen some blinding welding on panels on here that could be undetectable but conversely some other examples are well moody.

Cover it with dynamat. Even if they lifted the carpets there is no way they could scrape that tar stuff off to check out anything. On the underside as you say tiny up the welds to near flat and then spray on a ripply rubber based undersealer. I think in the case of the floor a patch would be considered a non matching panel that was simply a plate welded over over a rust hole. A blended floor would be acceptable.

[colr6]

Found this on a web site, may give you some ideas.

TUV Testing

The police, Nurburgring officials, and TUV inspectors can carry out checks on vehicles that cause them concern on Touristfahrten days. Cars which, when checked, cannot show that they are legal and safe will not be allowed access.

It is likely that heavily-modified cars will get the most attention: cages, harnesses, stripped interiors, etc. However, my understanding is that checks will be carried out only when they have some concern, not on a random basis.

If you've had a car checked at the Ring please tell us what happened in the Comments box below.

Background

TUV is the testing body responsible for safety testing (for a whole range of products, not just cars and bikes). There are two aspects of interest to us. First, German vehicles must pass a TUV test (like the British MOT, but much tougher). Second, parts sold to be fitted to German cars must themselves be tested and get a TUV certificate.

German cars

For German cars, nothing changes other than better enforcement. It is already the case that you your car's TUV papers must show that all modifications were made with TUV-approved parts and that the safety of the installation has been approved by a TUV inspector.

What will be happening in 2008 is that TUV inspectors and police will be making regular checks. You will be required to produce a TUV certificate which lists all the modifications made to the car. If you have unapproved modifications, you will not be allowed access and the police may prosecute.

If you have unapproved parts on a German car, and do not have the correct papers, you should arrange for a TUV inspector to carry out a Einzelabnahme inspection which (if it passes) will then certify that the parts and fitting are safe. If you have parts with ABE (Allgemeine Betriebs Erlaubnis) or Teile Gutachten papers, then the inspector can do a simplified inspection looking purely at the installation.

Foreign cars

Foreign cars will not have to produce TUV papers. However, the inspectors will have the right to satisfy themselves that the car is safe. You may thus need to be in a position to demonstrate that modifications use quality approved parts.

Your best bet is to carry the paperwork that came with things like rollcages, aftermarket suspension, brakes, etc, to show that they have some kind of approval: TUV, FIA, EC markings, etc. The ideal paperwork to satisfy German authorities is TUV, ABE (Allgemeine Betriebs Erlaubnis) or Teile Gutachten, but the more paperwork you can produce, the better.

If you have a heavily-modified car and want to be completely safe, you can arrange to have a Vollabnahme - this is equivalent to the UK's SVA (Single Vehicle Approval). It is a very tough TUV inspection (it takes about four hours), but the advantage is they can do it on the chassis number, so you can get a Vollabnahme for a foreign car. (This is the first step in German-registering a foreign car.) Only a limited number of TUV inspectors are licenced to carry out Vollabnahme tests.

 

[Rally Pack 2000]

37 minutes ago, colr6 said:

concern on Touristfahrten days.

They have days for that?

42 minutes ago, colr6 said:

Second, parts sold to be fitted to German cars must themselves be tested and get a TUV certificate. 

This is just a protectionist government con to ensure their markets aren't flooded with foreign non original parts under the guise of safety.

45 minutes ago, colr6 said:

Foreign cars will not have to produce TUV papers. However, the inspectors will have the right to satisfy themselves that the car is safe. You may thus need to be in a position to demonstrate that modifications use quality approved parts. 

How could the Germans possibly know or have an approval system for British Fords and the British made parts for them?

[katana]

10 hours ago, Rally Pack 2000 said:

How could the Germans possibly know or have an approval system for British Fords and the British made parts for them?

Ever heard of 'type approval'? Ford's, for example, were not only built in the UK but in European plants also - all same design just with home market modifications, the TUV only applies to German reg'd cars but the fitting aspects applied for TUV can be applied to any car if they suspected they have been carried out 'unprofessionally'!

The above info seems to be regarding use of the Nurburgring - i'm guessing the Krauts are fed up with loonies trying to kill themselves in bodged up pieces of junk - it is effectively still a public highway I believe so road traffic law still applies. The TUV is a pain but I guess it does remove the potential bodged 'performance enhancement'

Thinking about the welding thing again......... surely even the overly officious and bureaucratic germans wouldn't insist on a whole floor panel for a rusty hole in a footwell? 

[Vista]

Lots of European countries (most in fact I think) have far tighter regulations about car modification than we do over here. @JP. might have better comment to make on this from a Dutch perspective. 

[JP.]

I foresee not many problems getting this mk1 on German registration If the UK paperwork is correct.

[Rally Pack 2000]

4 hours ago, katana said:

Ever heard of 'type approval'? Ford's, for example, were not only built in the UK but in European plants also - all same design just with home market modifications, the TUV only applies to German reg'd cars but the fitting aspects applied for TUV can be applied to any car if they suspected they have been carried out 'unprofessionally'!

The above info seems to be regarding use of the Nurburgring - i'm guessing the Krauts are fed up with loonies trying to kill themselves in bodged up pieces of junk - it is effectively still a public highway I believe so road traffic law still applies. The TUV is a pain but I guess it does remove the potential bodged 'performance enhancement'

Thinking about the welding thing again......... surely even the overly officious and bureaucratic germans wouldn't insist on a whole floor panel for a rusty hole in a footwell? 

Some Ford models were but not all, virtually no British Leyland for example and they were built so long ago, decades before this scrutineering system was ever conceived for them to have documented the baseline for quality of every component that makes up these old cars to compare with non approved parts. By very definition BL cars would fail their tests of professional assembly from the factory! Virtually every car (except for Rays) would have a sizable quantity of after-market parts as virtually no replacement parts are made by their original factories today. "You may thus need to be in a position to demonstrate that modifications use quality approved parts." How do you demonstrate a quality approved part on your old Ford? Who approves them? Ford never approves of any after-market spares!  So they are saying that parts like First Line for example will have to be tested because there is no real proof its of acceptable quality (which it isnt! Its rubbish! LOL), so I stand by the question I made before, how could the Germans possibly know what after-market parts are good or bad for an old British car? And how could you possibly demonstrate its quality to them on brief visit all bolted to the car and also that you certify your own work to put the parts on yourself if some inspector gets bug in his bonnet? There is just this love of adding bureaucracy and regiment oversight by the German and EU authorities without considering the absurdity of it all. Short of complete disassembly and fatigue testing, in reality they could only give the car a superficial look over to check it is reasonably sound and some brake testing.  In a way a lap round the Nurburgring would definitely supply the proof if the parts are of acceptable quality and have been fitted correctly. Maybe that should be the real TUV test not trying to do it all before hand. It would certainly be fun watching the approval process! LOL

[katana]

Actually the TUV organisation started in the late 1800's for inspecting industrial machinery and inspection for cars was made compulsory every 2 years in 1951. In Germany, mods need to be recorded and certified parts used - non certified parts can be used but need inspecting, justifying and if ok will be added to the registration. Our MOT is only a 'superficial look' over but it is done every year! Race car scrutineering can only be a brief 'once over' checking essential safety items - effectively the onus is on the driver / owner saying 'it may be a pile of s**t but at this time, its a safe pile of s**t! Anyway them's the regulations - if your car doesn't comply, either you can't drive it or you buy a certified one that you can!

[Rally Pack 2000]

On 03/02/2019 at 19:25, katana said:

Actually the TUV organisation started in the late 1800's for inspecting industrial machinery and inspection for cars was made compulsory every 2 years in 1951. In Germany, mods need to be recorded and certified parts used - non certified parts can be used but need inspecting, justifying and if ok will be added to the registration. Our MOT is only a 'superficial look' over but it is done every year! Race car scrutineering can only be a brief 'once over' checking essential safety items - effectively the onus is on the driver / owner saying 'it may be a pile of s**t but at this time, its a safe pile of s**t! Anyway them's the regulations - if your car doesn't comply, either you can't drive it or you buy a certified one that you can!

I didnt know the TUV had been around for so long. I love century old institutions it makes a statement. You never stop learning new interesting facts on here.

If they are experienced with industrial and agricultural machinery then Col's MGB and its tractor engine should be good to go!

[colr6]

If they are experienced with industrial and agricultural machinery then Col's MGB and its tractor engine should be good togo!

WHAT have I done now??????

[Rally Pack 2000]

2 hours ago, colr6 said:

If they are experienced with industrial and agricultural machinery then Col's MGB and its tractor engine should be good togo!

WHAT have I done now??????

LOL Absolutely nothing that was just a general MGB jibe at its humble engine origins. See im explaining again!