Throttle body Conversions, pro's + cons?

[Fiesta Steve]

Theyre shorter with less resistence. They have to be to handle silly revs.

 

Surely its just a hole with a venturi, the same as webers ?

 

As for handling silly revs, don't forget the engines are usually half the capacity of say a pinto, but don't rev twice as high, therefore don't need to flow as much air as webers

[Vista]

As for handling silly revs, don't forget the engines are usually half the capacity of say a pinto, but don't rev twice as high, therefore don't need to flow as much air as webers

 

Hard to fault that kind of logic

[alladdin]

calling a throttle pot a "spring" is like calling a quaif 6 speed sequential gearbox a "box of thick oil"

it simply shows a complete lack of understanding.

 

given that there are , er how many ? mondeos that have covered over 150,000 miles and are over 10 yrs old still going strong then no wonder you are busy if they all need a remap every 3 months if you get a break between transits , open an offshore account

 

please realise this is just all in jest .......

[Guest MK1gaz]

People who own 150,000 mile £200 mondeos won't know or care if they're out of tune or not (they will be ) . They certainly won't pay out for a throttle pot and a re-map for them .

[alladdin]

People who own 150,000 mile £200 mondeos won't know or care if they're out of tune or not (they will be ) . They certainly won't pay out for a throttle pot and a re-map for them .

 

well i.... errrr.... suppose i have to concede that point

[oliwally]

calling a throttle pot a "spring" is like calling a quaif 6 speed sequential gearbox a "box of thick oil"

it simply shows a complete lack of understanding.

 

given that there are , er how many ? mondeos that have covered over 150,000 miles and are over 10 yrs old still going strong then no wonder you are busy if they all need a remap every 3 months if you get a break between transits , open an offshore account

 

please realise this is just all in jest .......

 

Have you ever taken one apart?

[Toby]

Why is it that after 40 years of automotive fuel research that Weber (the worlds no1 fuel specalist) hasn't improved or bettered the 1960's DCOE carb with any other carb since it's introduction ? :

 

True they haven't, but they have introduced Webber Alpha Injection for a reason.

 

The other point you make is possibly due to the fact they have had more time spent on them than any motor bike carb on an OSF ever - betamax wasn't a worse system but it didn't win the video wars!

 

Steve It's not the demand I'm impressed that the bike carbs are capable of supplying it's the RANGE of demand they cope with.

 

(I dont have any experience of bike carbs but the logic seems good)

[Toby]

*yawn* you can see where this thread is going from miles away...

 

 

Don't they always!!

[boXXer]

blody hell! nearly as many pages as my roller thread! yey! i like the idea of having 3 maps with emerald too. one for optimax and track days, one for normal unleaded to work and back, and one for a cheapy launch control

[zetecmk2]

blody hell! nearly as many pages as my roller thread! yey! i like the idea of having 3 maps with emerald too. one for optimax and track days, one for normal unleaded to work and back, and one for a cheapy launch control

that is exactly what i need ! how can it be done?

[Fiesta Steve]

 

Steve It's not the demand I'm impressed that the bike carbs are capable of supplying it's the RANGE of demand they cope with.

 

(I dont have any experience of bike carbs but the logic seems good)

 

I know m8, as I Fireblade owner I very impressed with the range they cope with to. Red lines at 11000 rpm but will buzz around to 13000 before it hits the limiter. From idle to redline the fuelling appears faultless

 

But they are just a carb aren't they?, and small ones at that, 38mm on my bike if I remember correctly although bigger ones are available on bigger bikes but most bikes are fuel injected now.

 

Bike carbs are excellent on bike engines that they are designed for, all the fast osf's are on webers. If I believed that fitting smaller carbs would make me go faster I'd have bolted some on years ago.

 

As for the fuelling, my cam and cylinder head are what make my engine behave the way it does the fact that I have overcarbed it doesn't help. If I bought some Weber 38 DCOE's fitted with the appropriate size chokes they would be as derivable as anything with bike carbs.

[alladdin]

calling a throttle pot a "spring" is like calling a quaif 6 speed sequential gearbox a "box of thick oil"

it simply shows a complete lack of understanding.

 

given that there are , er how many ? mondeos that have covered over 150,000 miles and are over 10 yrs old still going strong then no wonder you are busy if they all need a remap every 3 months if you get a break between transits , open an offshore account

 

please realise this is just all in jest .......

 

Have you ever taken one apart?

 

yes mate and to be honest it really was full of thick oil very smelly too

[alladdin]

 

Steve It's not the demand I'm impressed that the bike carbs are capable of supplying it's the RANGE of demand they cope with.

 

(I dont have any experience of bike carbs but the logic seems good)

 

I know m8, as I Fireblade owner I very impressed with the range they cope with to. Red lines at 11000 rpm but will buzz around to 13000 before it hits the limiter. From idle to redline the fuelling appears faultless

 

But they are just a carb aren't they?, and small ones at that, 38mm on my bike if I remember correctly although bigger ones are available on bigger bikes but most bikes are fuel injected now.

 

Bike carbs are excellent on bike engines that they are designed for, all the fast osf's are on webers. If I believed that fitting smaller carbs would make me go faster I'd have bolted some on years ago.

 

As for the fuelling, my cam and cylinder head are what make my engine behave the way it does the fact that I have overcarbed it doesn't help. If I bought some Weber 38 DCOE's fitted with the appropriate size chokes they would be as derivable as anything with bike carbs.

 

i agree. people tend to forget why bike carbs started to get used --- 40 dcoe were / are very expensive and/or worn out so if you can adapt bike carbs at home instead of 40's then its worth a go.(imo)

if you are looking at bigger carbs or have to pay for everything then its just a fashion trend. (imo)

 

taking t/b's -- when you look at a "jenvey dcoe flange "style t/b you cant help thinking its a lot of £££ for what it is, afterall a dcoe is a complex item ?? hence the popularity of mc t/b which are almost as good for the job.

im sure whene the first chinese versions of the weber style hit ebay they will be cheap as chips

[oliwally]

the trouble is that most 4 cylinder bike stuff is very small for what we need.

1000cc bike engine = 250cc which is ok for a carb between 35-38mm

you end up slightly over carb'd at 40mm.

my 450 single runs a 41 fcr. if you could get a pair of twin 41 fcr's that would be ok for an engine up to about 1800cc.

these can be taken out to 45mm so you should be ok up to 2600cc.

there's not many 4 cylinder bikes running TB's over 40mm.

[Guest MK1gaz]

i like the idea of having 3 maps with emerald too. one for optimax and track days, one for normal unleaded to work and back, and one for a cheapy launch control

They all do multi-maps mate , it's just costs mapping time x3 !!!!!!!!

[zetecmk2]

how do you change from 1 map to another? is the other map stored in the laptop, so you re-programme the ecu and store as many maps as you need , so i could re-programme the ecu and use it in the other car? still learning how to get the most out of emerald!

[kevmk2]

They all do multi-maps mate , it's just costs mapping time x3 !!!!!!!!

 

 

There is free mapping on this site

 

http://www.multimap.com/

[kevmk2]

They all do multi-maps mate , it's just costs mapping time x3 !!!!!!!!

 

 

This site does mapping for free mate

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.multimap.com/

 

[Guest MK1gaz]

how do you change from 1 map to another? is the other map stored in the laptop, so you re-programme the ecu and store as many maps as you need , so i could re-programme the ecu and use it in the other car? still learning how to get the most out of emerald!

You have switches on the dash etc and just flick them to change from one map to the next . The maps are stored in the ECU itself . Foooooking expensive though mate , probably a few hundred quid each at least (more like £400+ each really if they're gonna be any good ) . Ok for playboy millionare tuners and rally drivers no doubt !!!!!!!!

[boXXer]

thought it was only emerald that can run 3 maps?

[alladdin]

megasquirt extra runs 2, dash switchable as gaz says. i see it as usefull when "playing at mapping" or for dual fuel etc. lpg?

 

oily, 42mm t/b are available on lots of suzuki , or did you mean carbs?

[Guest MK1gaz]

thought it was only emerald that can run 3 maps?

They all do multi-maps mate , they all do the same thing as well = sparks and fuel and they all cost the same once fitted , mapped + working = big bucks !!!!!!!!

[RChambers]

Yep as is said all three maps are stored in the ecu and are switched from the dash. It wouldn't cost three times the amount to map though because once you have a good map you copy it over and modify it for the higher octane fuel (much quicker than complete map). And he wants to use the third map for launch control which will be the same as the normal map but with the rev limit set at 3000rpm or whatever so you can full throttle launch it

 

Oh and how many people with DCOE 45's run chokes bigger than 38mm? Thats the size you want to compare not the 45mm of the carb without chokes. My GSXR1000 throttle bodies have a 42mm diameter so can flow more than weber 45's. A 38mm bike carb will flow the same as a dcoe 45 choked to 38mm.

[Guest MK1gaz]

A race fuel map is nothing like a pump fuel map so it will still take hours to perfect = big bucks unless your a playboy tuner with your own dyno . Some people will drive up and down the bypass trying to d.i.y. it though

[boXXer]

Exactly what im after Rich!