What's the jury decision on braided brake lines?

[Rally Pack 2000]

There seems to be differences of opinion on whether its worth spending the extra for braided lines or not. Some claim a noticeable improvement in pedal feel while others say its minimal compared with new rubber ones.

 

I found myself in a strange position in that I purchased a set of Matt Lewis SS braided lines a couple of years back and dug them out with intent to fit them while the booster and master cylinder and lines are out to be painted up all nice to look new again. But .... I ran into a bit of a snag. Apparently Im not allowed to fit them because they havent been tested and approved for Australian Design Rules and therefore it could invalidate any insurance or whatever in case of an accident. A bit silly given I know they are a reputable product myself but I guess the rules are there so people dont go buying backyard Chinese ones off Ebay or something.

 

So moving on from my disappointment that I wasted my money on the Matt Lewis ones I went to an authorised fluid connector business that was listed as being agents for ADR approved lines that would in theory make a set up for me. He quoted me 50 quid a line but less if I paid cash under the counter (alarm bell 1). I mentioned the ADR restriction and he said he didnt know anything about it (alarm bell 2). I showed him one of he Matt Lewis lines and then stated he had never see a double male fitting line like that before and that he would have to order in the fittings (alarm bell 3). He checked his car guide at what he would need to order to make up the lines for an Escort and told me he could have all four lines made by the end of the week (alarm bell 4) there are only three lines but his book says four.

 

So in order to get so called ADR compliant lines its perfectly acceptable to go Mr McDodgey who has no clue and never made up a line like an Escorts before, doesnt even know how many to make, yet I cant use some tried and proven one ones that I got all in for 40 pounds for the set in the UK.

 

So back to the question, after this would you get braided lines again or just get some regular rubber ones of the shelf that are instantly ADR compliant if they are rubber? It should be mentioned my car has it original 1979 lines on it still LOL so one would imagine even new rubber ones should be an improvement!

 

Please feel free to discuss Rubber vs Braided in general as well as comments on the strange position I have found myself in.

[Vista]

Rubber for me. Much cheaper and even if they do improve braking distances by a decimeter, my rubbish driving skills more than make up for that gain  

[katana]

It is a strange situation as the braided lines are superior if only for the fact that they will not degrade over the lifetime of the car provided they are built correctly and they do not use alloy fittings (in particular on a road car) due to salt corrosion. They are actually prohibited for use by our construction and use regs so can't even be fitted by OEM factories but are allowable if fitted aftermarket / DIY - work out the sense of that!

I've made my own lines for the car and have done same for all of my bikes when fitted with upgraded brakes and never had a problem. I've used alloy, plated steel and stainless fittings with NO failure or corrosion problems but i've taken the time to get them right and careful placement to ensure no rubbing. But rules is rules I guess and even the German TUV allows them providing they have been tested to their demanding standards by approved suppliers.

[colr6]

I too make my own braided hoses and must say up to press not had any failure issues. Like anything if it's made correctly and secured in the correct manner they are a fit and forget. As for improving braking on a car I would say you wouldnt notice any difference taking into the consideration the length on hoses on a car and your using a good amount of fluid transfer through the master. In comparison to a bike which have small master cylinders and about a metre and half of rubber hoses then you do notice the difference in performance. Braided hoses I have found can reduce lever travel by as much as 50% against rubber hoses so a very good upgrade for a bike. As for regulation wise never had any problems on mots for both car and bike but then again Aussies are queer folk at times with some of their regs what RP tells us about.

 

So quick question RP, so if a uk car came to Aus with copper b/ pipes and braided hoses would it not be allowed to be used on your roads?

[Rally Pack 2000]

 

So quick question RP, so if a uk car came to Aus with copper b/ pipes and braided hoses would it not be allowed to be used on your roads?

 

Thats correct. It wouldnt pass our equivalent of an MOT which is needed to be issued with car registration.

 

There would be ways to work around this however. If you took the lines to most brake specialists they would replicate them in steel for you and you wouldnt know the difference apart from colour. Also the copper brake line ADR came in around 1970 so if the car was an Anglia from the 60's then it would be able to pass. As far as braided lines go there is a caveat to that in certain circumstances. Hel are a manufacturer in Australia and also the UK so that brand has been certified to meet Australian design rules. (Apparently they even have been certified in Israel as well as a number of other countries) Goodridge is another I believe has been certified but making your own or the ones I purchased are a no no. Its just about being sure safety equipment like brakes are up to a certain standard. While it seems petty from the outset I can see some logic in it. Can you imagine imagine Chinese made rubber brake lines? They cant even make the elastic in undies last more than a few months.

 

If brake travel in a bike is reduced by 50% how much would it been in a car like an Escort?

 

I am tempted just to fit rubber one again as Im sure they would be an improvement over the originals still on the car, there is the though as you say I dont really want to have to change them again in my lifetime.

[Rally Pack 2000]

I double checked the UK made Goodridge braided brake hoses and they have had theirs certified for use in Australia.

 

 

If you look at the bottom left of the packet you will see accreditation for various countries and you will see ADR there which is in reference to Australian design rules. Had I researched this before hand I could have gotten these ones rather than spending money on the Matt Lewis ones I cant actually use. You just dont think of these things until it comes time to use them.

 

I wonder what the difference is between their Black ones and their Vintage Black one?

[colr6]

If brake travel in a bike is reduced by 50% how much would it been in a car like an Escort?

 

The reason you notice more on a bike is the master cylinder is so small compared to a car the volume of fluid transfer is smaller so any expansion of rubber pipes is more noticible.

[Vista]

 

I wonder what the difference is between their Black ones and their Vintage Black one?

 

Black ones look gloss, vintage look matt?

[Rally Pack 2000]

Black ones look gloss, vintage look matt?

 

Yes I think you are right. The classic ones are meant to look like old classic rubber pipes yet are modern braided lines underneath. I quite like those ones actually

[Ray]

ok, where can i get cotton braided brake hoses for the mk1 escort, as thats what my 1300Es had from new, but i cant find replacements at any money

[Ray]

wouldnt know about steel braded on an escort, but on my M3, the steel brake pipes have to have the end joint cut off and a different type of fitting put on to fit steel braded hoses, and as far as i can see that goes for all the braided hose manufacturers, and then they dont fit in the bracket securely

[colr6]

To fit braided steel hoses shouldn't have to change ends on existing steel pipe as the ends are made in metric and unf threads. So unless someone has made them and used olives on the steel pipes instead of standard flares no reason to change ends. I've never seen cotton braided hoses in replacement ones so your only option would oe. They would be a real find if there was any to be had.

[Rally Pack 2000]

Ive ordered a set of the Goodridge Classic ones from Burtons. Was cheaper including postage than gett a set of rubber ones locally. They are ADR approved so the insurance company can bite me if they say anything. Given they are made to look like classic rubber ones I doubt they will even notice.

 

I will add the Matt Lewis ones to the Princess Calliper, Disks, Capri Bilstein Struts, Springs and Top Mounts I have that I decided not to use so will sell off to an enthusiast. Hopefully cover costs of some recent over spending.

[Rally Pack 2000]

The Goodridge Classic SS brake lines arrived from Burtons promptly and without incident. They seem to be of good quality with a subtle look were no one would probably even realise they are in fact braided lines.

 

 

Fitting them though I discovered a glitch with them. Original rubber lines have a long hex section so that you can put a 14mm spanner on them so when you tighten the nut on the inner guard the hose wont twist with it. The Goodridge lines have a 13mm nut type flange incorporated into the stainless steel end. With Escorts however there is a recessed plate on the inner guard. With a conventional rubber hose the hex section at either end is so thick that it extends outside the recessed mounting point and you can still get a spanner on it. Not so the Goodridge lines that the 13mm hex section is so thin that its flush with the mounting depression and you cant get a spanner on it. The Teflon inner tubes of these lines is susceptible to strong twisting so you must have support for it to prevent that and also one day you will want to take the things off again. Natural solution would be washer of some sort but all off the shelf 10mm holed washers are too large a diameter to fit within the depression and too thin.

 

 

So far that only option seems to be drilling out some 8mm washers but would probably need at least three stacked to make up the gap needed. That seems a bit sloppy to me so looking for an alternate thicker spacer washer type deal. If anyone has come up with a neat solution having fitted these lines please let me know. Thanks

 

 

[colr6]

Have a look at copper sealing washers they have a much smaller O/D than standard washers so may help you out with the slight recess in the panel.

[katana]

Have a look at copper sealing washers they have a much smaller O/D than standard washers so may help you out with the slight recess in the panel.

Or spring washers - usually narrow and thicker @ 10mm size

[Rally Pack 2000]

Or spring washers - usually narrow and thicker @ 10mm size

 

I did try one spring washer I had but it was too big also but I may try another as they do tend to differ greatly in size and shape.

[Rally Pack 2000]

Resurrecting an old thread. I found some nuts online that look like they would act as a good spacer but I need to know the pitch of Escort brake lines. Are they M10 0.75 or M10 1.0? Thanks boffins who know these things.

[colr6]

M10x 1.0

[Rally Pack 2000]

M10x 1.0

 

You're a legend! Thanks

[Rally Pack 2000]

M10x 1.0

 

Col, one last question is 1.0 pitch coarser or finer than 0.75? 0.75 is the finer one with the threads close together right?

[colr6]

Yes 1.0 pitch is coarser than .75

[colr6]

Don't forget also that the hoses that go through the inner guards will need half thickness nuts due to the multiple skins, if you use full nuts you may find the pipe nuts bottom out before nipping the pipe fully.

[Rally Pack 2000]

Don't forget also that the hoses that go through the inner guards will need half thickness nuts due to the multiple skins, if you use full nuts you may find the pipe nuts bottom out before nipping the pipe fully.

 

Yes thats exactly the problem Im facing. In order to fit a spacer nut because Goodridge made the ends too small it means drawing the end further under the guard leaving less thread in the engine bay. I wrote Goodridge about it, why they put 13mm ends on it instead of 14 and they never replied. They cant have done any research it seems yet the ones I bought first which arent ADR compliant do have the correct 14mm ends. The system is broken somewhere LOL

[Ray]

ive yet to see a braided hose fit properly like an original, most even have the incorrect fittings and the main pipe has to be cut and new ends fitted to suit the braided one

 

junk junk junk all the way