Lucas ACR Alternator Repair Kits

[katana]

No connection that I know of, although the alternator could be connected to the battery side of the starter soli but shouldn't be of any consequence. Does sound like the soli has committed Hari kari!

[Miniliteman]

Double check the connections of old and new alternator are xactly the same. Recharge battery, refit startermotor but leave alternator out. Isolate the thick cable from alternator to battery. Should start.

[Rally Pack 2000]

7 hours ago, Miniliteman said:

Double check the connections of old and new alternator are xactly the same. Recharge battery, refit startermotor but leave alternator out. Isolate the thick cable from alternator to battery. Should start.

The connecting plug was that Lucas type and the same on both so I simply plugged it in. It has three terminals but only two seem to be used, the small one and one of the two larger ones. When I checked the starter the main terminal post nut was completely loose. I tightened that up but still dead. Im still getting power to the lighter socket when I turn the key switch to the second click so I dont think its the switch thats burned out. Best guess at this stage is that it was an amazing coincidence the starter post came loose on the very first start with the new alternator which damaged the solenoid. As a precaution I put the old alternator back in to test and its still all dead. So the starter went to the auto electrician two hours ago and await their findings. I gave them the new alternator to test too just on the off chance it was in any way part of the problem. I think the early morning cars and coffee at the river tomorrow may be off at this point!

I have been trying to search out a spare starter to have on had just for situations like this but have been unable to find one. Our Escorts has a short Bosch Starter made locally and they are really really hard to find. As it was the one that just came out was rebuilt during the virus lockdowns so its not that old at all.

I saw this one which seems close to what the Australian ones use but boy thats alot of money on a chance it its good.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/374050120470?epid=4042243092&hash=item57171fe316:g:yW0AAOSw3Zpf0wgV&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0GJ68ZLCONY428GyaCyJmurOxm9trrLGMNbPIDr13n1SEMJDizirErFZ389wk2OJTVbn7rKXvRo1OqHBhPaTSB8WM9%2B6yIgqUNZ9PjpYidwb6QJPf8Fg8u9XvFzbAAehCYAWgTE13grt4DrmThSE7c%2FWCxKZYCzO609%2FtyYa%2BDul%2FoR8iFwCwbrYkgYdcKUndJs4FAQsAMRv5MxCqP2HnX3YusVIZw17CwjG2bOMdElauOiGyyXdh%2Bl0Hqe%2BZovEfbZKNDgddH%2B7bm97YOtBZ%2Fc%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7bBk8D9YQ

[caprimk1v4]

Hope you get it sorted soon, it could still be your ignition switch, as there are more than one set of contacts on it, but the starter one is a spring loaded one that turns to off once started, so even though on "POS 2" you have your cigi lighter working, that is not from the set of contacts that bring in the solenoid on the starter to bring the starter motor on.

It could be just coincidental that the brushes in your starter motor were at there very end of use, your new alternator would have nothing to do with it, as it has not even run enough for it to "KICK IN".

You did mention that the nut on the post of the starter motor was very loose !!??, that would be getting quite hot while your cranking, so you might want to check that it is clean & shiny, same with the Earths to both the body & body to engine block, I have fitted more than one Earth to my Mexico, from bellhouse to body and engine block to body.

You also mention that the solenoid does not even "Click" now, so I would be checking the solenoid to see if that's open circuit, as unless the solenoid closes, nothing will get to the starter motor, if you identify which terminal on the solenoid is the one that closes it, you can put a cable from the battery Positive terminal and briefly touch that terminal, if the solenoid is ok, it will click & try to turn over, and then that would mean the ignition switch, if it still did not click or turn over, then the solenoid is naff, hope you get it going with time to spare to go out.  

 

 

 

[Johnny Boy]

This is the starter that's a common upgrade over here, smaller , but more powerful.

click here

[Miniliteman]

Does everything else (lights etc) work okay?

The starters from the link Johnny Boy posted are supposed to be very good. Just make sure you have the correct item as they list separate starters for RS2000 and also for engines with alloy sumps. Also that starter does not have the terminal that bridges the resistor-wire for the ignition (if you still have that).

[Rally Pack 2000]

12 hours ago, Miniliteman said:

Does everything else (lights etc) work okay?

The starters from the link Johnny Boy posted are supposed to be very good. Just make sure you have the correct item as they list separate starters for RS2000 and also for engines with alloy sumps. Also that starter does not have the terminal that bridges the resistor-wire for the ignition (if you still have that).

Yes lights and everything else seems to work fine. My first thought was solenoid but wouldnt the starter still spin just not have the drive move forward?

[Miniliteman]

The "switch" that gives the starter motor its juice is part of the solenoid. +12V whilst cranking closes that switch and pushes the small gear forward towards the starter-gear on the flywheel (as you know). Solenoid could be kaputt or there is a spring inside the solenoid that could be broken.

[caprimk1v4]

On 06/05/2023 at 07:05, Johnny Boy said:

This is the starter that's a common upgrade over here, smaller , but more powerful.

click here

That is what I have fitted to two of mine, very-very good, they don't look strong enough when you have one in your hand, BUT, boy does it spin a Pinto over well, and a very good price.

[DT36]

49 minutes ago, caprimk1v4 said:

That is what I have fitted to two of mine, very-very good, they don't look strong enough when you have one in your hand, BUT, boy does it spin a Pinto over well, and a very good price.

Had one of these on my car for about 9 years.  Also had alternator from same guy around the same time. 

Just bought another alternator from him recently for my Mondeo ST and it's spot on. 

[Rally Pack 2000]

5 hours ago, caprimk1v4 said:

That is what I have fitted to two of mine, very-very good, they don't look strong enough when you have one in your hand, BUT, boy does it spin a Pinto over well, and a very good price.

Its funny you should say that cause I saw those ones and the first thing I though was they look too thin to be strong enough to turn over the engine.  There is an originality factor at play here with the starters being Australian made Bosch ones which are pretty unique but its the down time as you get them rebuilt often having to spend weeks to find the parts yourself, and like now im sort of dry docked when I need to get the car to events. If this is what you guys are using constantly then having one as a spare during the down times of the original may be a worthwhile investment.

[Miniliteman]

Photo of a Bosch Mk2 Escort startermotor and a Ford / Bosch item for a Sierra Pinto. The Sierra one weigh 1 kg less, draws less than half the current of the OEM Escort one and has almost 3 times the power. No brainer. Just remember that the Sierra one doesn't have the contact for bridging the resistance wire for ignition.

Probably the solenoid part of the starter is the same for LHD and RHD cars. Marcel probably has several of these you can use spare parts of to rebuild yours.

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Miniliteman

[Rally Pack 2000]

3 minutes ago, Miniliteman said:

Photo of a Bosch Mk2 Escort startermotor and a Ford / Bosch item for a Sierra Pinto. The Sierra one weigh 1 kg less, draws less than half the current of the OEM Escort one and has almost 3 times the power. No brainer. Just remember that the Sierra one doesn't have the contact for bridging the resistance wire for ignition.

Probably the solenoid part of the starter is the same for LHD and RHD cars. Marcel probably has several of these you can use spare parts of to rebuild yours.

 

Interesting! Neither of those would pictured fit though with the starter mounted on the left. Escort versions are also notably shorter than Contina ones of the same era. The longer Cortina ones fall foul of the crossmember.

[Miniliteman]

1 hour ago, Rally Pack 2000 said:

Neither of those would pictured fit though with the starter mounted on the left. Escort versions are also notably shorter than Contina ones of the same era. The longer Cortina ones fall foul of the crossmember.

Am aware that these are LHD starters. Was just to give an idea of size and weight. The Sierra one is a bit longer but thinner and is an easier swap on my car compared to the std item. Solenoid bit could well be the same on a RHD starter.

[caprimk1v4]

I have in the past put a starter motor in a vice, have a good battery on the bench, and put the black jump lead onto the Neg terminal of the battery & the other end on the starter body, put the red jump lead onto the Pos terminal of the battery, and with the other end, very briefly touch the big main contact nut that is on the starter motor itself (not on the solenoid|0, if the motor spins, the motor side is ok, then you can briefly put the red jump lead onto the solenoid terminal that activates the solenoid, and if it operates it then the solenoid is also ok, but if it does nothing or just a clicking noise, then it is broken, be careful with the jump leads though, there is a lot of amps available if you short the two together.

[katana]

That tests the mechanical aspect of the soli. If you connect the battery to the battery side of the soli then take a thinner guage wire between the small soli terminal and touch it to the battery + then it should operate as it would if installed. This assumes the soli is earthed via its body to starter frame

[Rally Pack 2000]

Bought some unusual B Pillar trims off a Ghia being scrapped (mentioned in another thread) and the guy had a rusty starter spare in the boot but it was the rare small bodied Australian made Bosch type and he didn't want alot for it so thought I would take it anyways. It was so rust I had to sand it back and put rust converter on it before I took it down to the Auto Electrician giving them a bit of a choice between my old one and it maybe find the parts. Turns out the rusty thing was in great shape internally so they completely refurbished that one as my original that looked like new on the outside was toast on the inside (go figure)!

They took a few days to do it cause the guy wanted each of his apprentices an opportunity to solder in the brushes and clean up each of the components. I said surely they must do that every week and he said this was the first starter they had reconditioned in 18 months. Its all swap and throw away now. Given that he still has the other one so if I can get the solenoid components im definitely going to have the other restored too so I can have a spare. Im not sure the skills to repair these will be around in the next decade or so. You guys in the UK will be ok as you have this cottage industry for classic car stuff but here all those skills are just going to vanish.

Put the new 65 AMP alternator back in as it was just sheer coincidence the starter failed the very moment I installed it. Night time drive last night and not a flicker of an alternator light.  Interestingly the Auto Electrician said that he can repair my Lucas one but not the replica when it fails. Its a disposable world out there isn't it?

[Miniliteman]

What is the difference between a normal Bosch starter and a small bodies one?

[Rally Pack 2000]

1 hour ago, Miniliteman said:

What is the difference between a normal Bosch starter and a small bodies one?

In Australia anyways the longer bodied ones are used in Cortinas and the Short bodied ones are used in Escorts. Its all about cross-member clearance. Ive seen Escort owners rebuild engines with Cortina Starters and slot them in together with the engine change but when they failed they couldn't get them out again. Keeping in mind Australian 2lt Escorts used a cast bell housing and a unique steel sump. Bosch Australia made the starters locally at the time clearly based on their German designs just with a few changes.

[Miniliteman]

So it is different length wise not diameter.

[Rally Pack 2000]

1 minute ago, Miniliteman said:

So it is different length wise not diameter.

Yes

[Rally Pack 2000]

As it turns out my new 65amp Lucas replica alternator is faulty. At first I thought there had to be a fault elsewhere as the same wavering alternator light was still there so it took me a while to realise while the old Lucas one needed a rebuilt the new replacement virtually has the same fault. It has its low glow you see at night but then it started the strong intermittent flashing you could see even in daylight. The auto electrician suggest I buy a cheap digital volt meter that plugs into the cigarette lighter to monitor things and sure enough it barely shows 12 to 12.4 volts even going down to the 11s at times. On very rare occasions it will do the right thing at hit 13 to 13.4 volts but only 10 percent of the time. So its capable but the regulator simply isnt doing a correct job. Trouble is it came from the UK and they arent repairable so not sure what to do now?

[Miniliteman]

Are you sure the alternator is at fault? Maybe bad earth connection? Or bad connection of the thick cable(s)? How come they aren't repairable? Can you dismantle it?

[Miniliteman]

Have had a similar issue myself. Turned out the metal adjuster bracket was broken. You hardly could see it from above but the alternator is earthed through that bracket.

[Rally Pack 2000]

3 hours ago, Miniliteman said:

Are you sure the alternator is at fault? Maybe bad earth connection? Or bad connection of the thick cable(s)? How come they aren't repairable? Can you dismantle it?

I originally cleaned all the earth connections with the first Lucas one. The auto electrician said while they may look like a Lucas on the outside they dont use the same parts internally so if anything goes on them they are single use like many modern alternators. The bracket is Chromed but it has been for years long before this fault developed with both alternators.