4 Doors, why not as valued as 2 doors?

[Rally Pack 2000]

Being from Australia my perspective is maybe a bit different to those in the UK. I would concede that 2 door cars do look a tad better than 4 doors but in the case of Mk2 Escorts the difference isnt that great you would ever actually claim its harder on the eye. So why the huge price differences? Why the "oh its a just a 4 door" I have often read on these forums.

 

Is this a mind association as all the sporting model were 2 door in the UK? I suggest this and refer back to a different perspective being in Australia. Our Mk2 RS2000s / Rally Packs (Mexicos) came in both 2 and 4 door. All our shells regardless of engine were strengthened so it wasnt a case of only 2 door sporting shells were best. Coming from a group of mates that all bought Escorts I dont remember one of us seeking out specifically a 2 door or 4 door for our road cars. You bought the best you could for the money and there was pretty much no great difference in price between a 2 and 4 door model.

 

Given some of the ridiculous prices being achieved for Old Skool Fords in Europe, people are going to have to give the poor 4 door a bit more recognition if they want to jump in. So is it just perception or something more tangible that the 4 door is still second class? Enjoy the friendly discussions.......

[Vista]

 

 

Is this a mind association as all the sporting model were 2 door in the UK? 

 

This, and because of photos and videos like these. Plus of course, back then cars with 4 doors were for mum and kids to go shopping in.

 

 

 

That said, I think the "oh it's only a 4 door" mentality is largely (thankfully) a thing of the past here too.

[Rally Pack 2000]

Its interesting you cite the image of rallying imprinting on people. Because in Australia the Escort wasnt the Rally car of choice by all the backyard rally wannabees. It was the Datsun 1600. All of which were 4 doors sold here. While Twincams were circuit raced here and were sold in limited numbers, all the rest of our Mk1s were 1300. We got no Coswoth BDA engined or larger Kent or Pinto engines cars. So in the MK1 Escort era they were never enshrined as the tough rally car of choice but rather 1300 shopping cars regardless of the number of doors. The Datsun 1600 was cheap and more competition parts available locally. Even when the Mk2 Escort came out although we finally got 1600 Kent engined Escorts we never really got what you would call a sports model till the 2lt Pinto Engine was introduced in 1977. Back then the Pinto engine was just a big heavy lump that not many could get any power out of that you would really Rally with it. So the Datsuns continued their reign with Toyota bringing out sporty Celica models as opposition. Limited imports of RS1800s were rallied but it was rare and expensive. Toyota basically reigned after the Datsun era. So our rally images have both 2 and 4 door imprinted on our minds as a result. Another divergence that would affect door biased perceptions.

 

There another notable case in Australian motorsport that I will bring up later in the discussions.

[accord83]

Back in time, nah further back than that 1977ish, I had a 4dr, but being 6'6", once I had the seat mounts so the seat was comfortable, my head was to the rear edge of the 4dr B post, this made vision at junctions interesting. Admittedly when the bus hit my drivers side, the position of the B post, a seamed shell and belts probably saved my sorry arse from serious injuries, but since then it's a 2dr all the way for me.

Back then when I was an apprentice, I only ever saw one Datsun 1600, and that belonged to another apprentice, and when it was quiet you could hear it rust. It died valiantly, sliding into a ditch whilst the owner and a lady of dubious virtue were in the throes of youthful passion parked on a grass bank and managed to release the handbrake.

[Vista]

70's Datsuns in the UK? Shudder! Though I should probably except the 240 and 260z from that.

 

Celicas were popular here in the mid / late 70's but they weren't a people's car like the Escort and back then were probably imported so more expensive than home grown Fords.

[skeeter]

Surely it is also about supply and demand? I would suggest that significantly more 4 doors of any model were likely to be made compared to 2 doors.

[Danish]

It's much the same with Cortinas. For me a 2-door has a more sporty purposeful look whereas 4 doors have more of a 'family car' about them. I'm sure many more 4-door cars were originally sold as well.

[Rally Pack 2000]

Surely it is also about supply and demand? I would suggest that significantly more 4 doors of any model were likely to be made compared to 2 doors.

 

Not quite. Yes supply and demand has created the divide between 2 and 4 door models with more people prefering 2 doors that generates that demand but not based on rarity at least not here. Here in Australia the RS/RPs were made a bit less than 2 to 1. (2 Doors to 4 Doors) So 4 door versions of the Sports models would be considered notably rarer. However given they fetch roughly the same the same greater demand for the two doors over 4 doors exists (as they did new) to maintain the price in equilibrium.

 

Also in Australia it cost more for the extra doors. When new a 4 door of the same model cost extra. So those who wanted the cheapest option went for two doors. The base Mk2 model here the L could only be had with two doors. If you wanted four you had to spend more on the GL model. So too we didnt have 2 door Ghias like you guys have. Considered the luxury model they all had 4 doors. So Apart from Ghias there was a fairly even split in Mk2s from 2 and 4 doors in sales in the GL range with a 2 door sporting bias creeping in on RS/RP models. So too were our Mk1s (All 13000s) they also were fairly evenly split between 2 and 4 doors with the twos again being a source of money saving.

 

So in the UK were new sales 4 door cars supplied in greater numbers unlike the Australian market that sees an over supply of 4 doors to this day? Or is it a later phenomenon as the Forest gardeners certainly must have diminished the pool of 2 doors where it is impacting on price? Again that bares out with us here as previously mentioned that the rally boys passed Escorts by to any great degree. Cause an effect is much more complicated when it comes from more than one aspect.  Interesting.

[HotRodMatt]

It's purely aesthetics for me. I prefer 2dr cars in general, OSF or otherwise. Only exception would be the Lotus Carlton.

[khanlad]

I'm not so sure on the looks think nowerdays, I have a 4 dr, bought it because at the price I just couldn't not buy it. I have the green light from the boss to get a 2dr if I want, transfer all my bits over and sell the 4dr , I even know where there is one that needs work that I could do a deal on, dont think i want to spend the money though? The difference to me is the 2dr was used for motorsport , 4dr wasn't, if you asked any male 35 years old onwards to draw an escort it would be lowered, wide wheels, forest arches, spot lights, doubt it would be the 4dr gl that old Mrs Smith next door had? 2drs were sporty or can be turned into sporty, that's why people want them, if they want them, they pay more? Would be interesting to know the ratio of 2dr to 4dr sold in UK, and what is it now?

[Rally Pack 2000]

It's purely aesthetics for me. I prefer 2dr cars in general, OSF or otherwise. Only exception would be the Lotus Carlton.

 

Is it just purely aesthetics though? Is that preference a chemical one in your brain like your choice of your favourite colour or a subconscious result of you equating 2 doors to being more sporty? If purely judging the matter from aesthetics the law of averages should suggest that half prefer the look of 4 doors but I have never heard one person ever make the claim I chose a 4 door because I prefer the looks. What some perceive as aesthetics is a biased ingrained into our psyches that a 2 door looks better because it somehow equates it to being more sporty. Even if no other factors are affecting your aesthetic choice, and certainly a premium paid as a result, is that small difference in look worth the double and sometimes triple the cost premium? I personally dont think so which means something more is certainly driving the price differential. I do agree that like you I think 2 doors look better but that alone cant be responsible for the cost differential and the scorn given to 4 doors in the past. (but as Vista points out is thankfully changing)

 

I previously referred to other examples of where here in Australia we dont have that same 2 door indoctrination. In the 70's Escort era for the UK for us it was more muscle car for our premier racing categories. The main rival a 2 door GM 6 cylinder offering and a V8 Falcon GTHO 4 door. The Australian Falcon Phase 3 GTHO reputed to being the fastest 4 door production car in the world at the time. GM went V8 as well to compete with the Falcon with both GM and Ford dallying with 2 door versions but by the 80s pretty much the championship was between two 4 door offerings from GM and Ford. So because our premier racing series was mainly 4 doors we dont have this instant equation of 4 door not being a sporty option. It is for this reason, given that their Top of the line GT cars were 4 door, that when developing their own Escort line that Ford Australia chose to offer its RS2000 and Rally Packs in both two and 4 door form. Given that all our shells were strengthened anyways why wouldnt you offer a 4 door variant to those who may prefer it and even pay extra for the other 2 doors.

 

To highlight this perspective difference was that four door GM (Holden) V8s were made for decades yet when they decided to build a limited edition 2 door version call the Monaro,  Vauxhall steps up re-badged it and sold it in the UK. It was like as a 4 door it was unsaleable as a sporting vehicle in the UK until decades later a 2 door version was released. This harks to my raising the discussion with this thread. There is something inherently different to how we view the 2 and 4 door conundrum to how you guys do? And whatever "that" is, is driving prices beyond where they should be.

 

Great Discussion

[mk2 mike]

Personally I think (on OSF escorts) the proportions just look wrong on four doors. A mk2 four door I can just about deal with but personally I think a four door mk1 just looks plain ugly. I can understand people having a four door as prices have gone through the roof but if I were buying one now id wait and save more rather than buy a four door.

 

No offence meant to four door owners just my own taste

[stephens_xpack]

I think if you were to kit out 2 cars in identical fashion, colour, stance, wheels, one a 4 door and the other 2 door - doubt you would notice much difference in the looks.

But personally I prefer the look of a 2 door a little more and I have had both at times. Just personal preference I think. Plus people generally hanker after the more sporty models and those were generally 2 door cars, and the lesser more sensible, practical models generally 4 door cars.

But in saying that, a 4 door Capri would probably look really daft? not sure.

[katana]

I believe there is more to the 2 door sporty verses 4 doors 'staid and sensible'. Look at the US hot Rodding industry / market - if its a muscle car you want to mod, it has to be a two door. Most of the great muscle cars were all two door - mustangs, 'vette's, firebirds, GTO's. Even now compare a new Dodge Charger against a new Challenger and i'd pick the big wide doors and forget about carrying passengers in the back. You like what you like!

[Danish]

I have the green light from the boss to get a 2dr if I want, transfer all my bits over and sell the 4dr , 

 

Don't do it! I thought exactly the same *four years ago* - broke my Mk3 4-door and bought a 2-door rolling shell... still trying to get it back together!

[colr6]

Think over here the two door versions were advertised as rally winners proving there reliability and speed and THE ford to be seen in if you were young and even with a family you still use an RS 2000/mex/sport/harrier having four seats. Not a lot to say about a four door except a family car with the escort name. In the four door versions I can find equally pleasing to the eye a ghia with all its trim next to a RS2000. So all the born again fordies want what they had or wished they had a sporty escort which was a two door be it a souped up one or original RS/ mex and so on. Born again Fordies Don't really want the sensible option that normally goes with shall we say mid to later years. To be honest how many people on here could call themselves sensible with what we do to the cars with the likes of putting 16v engines in them four carbs/ turbos and even nitrous. Consequently the demand for two doors is higher which reflects in there higher value due to limited numbers still about. On the back hand of that the four doors seem to be getting a bigger following because they want an Escort but can't afford the two door prices, you can still make a four door go like hot snot and handle like a skateboard. Even the estate cars are popping up in some seriously cool looks. I mean who ever thought an estate car could have some serious street cred. You've only to look at the OSF home page headed with two door cars, could you say that was slightly biased or what

[khanlad]

I've got enough to keep me going for a bit, I'm finishing off stuff I have laying around. I look at my cars as a hobby, not a money making enterprise, and I honestly think that given the choice I'd rather sink my money into my 4dr doing some bits I'm not 100% happy with rather than buying a different potential can of worms? My first car was a 4dr escort, after that I was 2dr all the way , the only 4dr I would dream of buying would be to strip good bits off for a 2dr!

[Rally Pack 2000]

Personally I think (on OSF escorts) the proportions just look wrong on four doors. A mk2 four door I can just about deal with but personally I think a four door mk1 just looks plain ugly.

 

In the 80's I has six friends and in total had own 15 Escorts between us. Your view on Mk2 4 doors being ok but 4 door Mk1s being a bit undesirable prevailed within the group as not one of those 15 was a 4 door Mk1 but many were Mk2 4 doors. Could this be traced to the fact that the Mk1 was designed as a 2 door originally and the extra doors added to that design whereas the Mk2 was actually designed as a 4 door and 2 door modified design added later? Even Ford themselves seem to try address the "looks" issue with their 4 door Escort line.

[Rally Pack 2000]

Im pretty sure this photo came from one of the threads here. Four door Mk1s can look absolutely stunning. Maybe like anything its all in the finer details rather than the extra doors?

 

 

 

[2512pf]

They make escorts with 4 doors.??

[accord83]

Madder than that, they then welded the rear doors up, put a door in the back, and turned the engine sideways, driving through the front! Hellish good drugs back then.

[mk2 mike]

In the 80's I has six friends and in total had own 15 Escorts between us. Your view on Mk2 4 doors being ok but 4 door Mk1s being a bit undesirable prevailed within the group as not one of those 15 was a 4 door Mk1 but many were Mk2 4 doors. Could this be traced to the fact that the Mk1 was designed as a 2 door originally and the extra doors added to that design whereas the Mk2 was actually designed as a 4 door and 2 door modified design added later? Even Ford themselves seem to try address the "looks" issue with their 4 door Escort line.

That could well be the reason

[GJUK]

2 dr anything is better than 4 door...

 

...For looks, maybe not for shopping. 2dr's for the win.

 

[Vista]

Ordinarily I would agree with you. But as with any rule of thumb, there are exceptions to it.

[2512pf]

Ordinarily I would agree with you. But as with any rule of thumb, there are exceptions to it.

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