British Musclecars ?

[V8ian]

O.K. Im not going to sit here and pretend that I now anything about the history of muscle cars becuase I dont!

 

But reading these past post I am a bit confused as to what a muscle car is!

Now I just assumed the muscle cars were primerally, stock "American" cars that have been souped up by a specilist part of the firm or by outside help i.e. Shelby and were sold through factory dealerships.

(basically what Chris has just said)

 

I would not of said the British ever made a muscle car. More, Sports tourers. Now with that said, and by the above definition, that a muscle car is basically a souped up version of a standard prduction car, I feel that we have made many "Muscle cars" ?

 

I would also go as far to say that Lotus carltons, omegas, cortinas and sunbeams. Cosworths, Brabus mercedes, Alpina BMW's ect are muscle cars. There are loads that you could add to the list.

But I would defanatly say that SD1 rovers are not muscle cars.

 

Most American Muscle cars, as by amarican standards are sports tourers, obviously there are exceptions with things like early Hemi 300 cars, and the factory FX cars, but do the FX cars count???, I would love a Thunderbolt, A clone would do. complete with a cammer and glass and ally bits

[Slik 50]

O.K. Im not going to sit here and pretend that I now anything about the history of muscle cars becuase I dont!

 

But reading these past post I am a bit confused as to what a muscle car is!

Now I just assumed the muscle cars were primerally, stock "American" cars that have been souped up by a specilist part of the firm or by outside help i.e. Shelby and were sold through factory dealerships.

(basically what Chris has just said)

 

I would not of said the British ever made a muscle car. More, Sports tourers. Now with that said, and by the above definition, that a muscle car is basically a souped up version of a standard prduction car, I feel that we have made many "Muscle cars" ?

 

I would also go as far to say that Lotus carltons, omegas, cortinas and sunbeams. Cosworths, Brabus mercedes, Alpina BMW's ect are muscle cars. There are loads that you could add to the list.

But I would defanatly say that SD1 rovers are not muscle cars.

 

Most American Muscle cars, as by amarican standards are sports tourers, obviously there are exceptions with things like early Hemi 300 cars, and the factory FX cars, but do the FX cars count???, I would love a Thunderbolt, A clone would do. complete with a cammer and glass and ally bits

 

 

What are FX cars

[Vista]

Most American Muscle cars, as by amarican standards are sports tourers, obviously there are exceptions with things like early Hemi 300 cars, and the factory FX cars, but do the FX cars count???, I would love a Thunderbolt, A clone would do. complete with a cammer and glass and ally bits

 

Thunderbolt, mmmmm now we're talking

 

[v6pop]

The Australians got it right for muscle in your ford,they always seem to offer a V8 engine option into most of the factory range.(capri's,cortina's)

[V8ian]

FX cars = Factory Experimantal, limited runs for racing purposes.

 

DOH, not THAT Thunderbolt, a FORD THUNDERBOLT-------- http://auto.howstuffworks.com/define-19 ... erbolt.htm

[over_head_cam]

My definition of a muscle car would be the same as a muscle-bound meat head. Tons of strength and power' very big, and a bit dim witted.

 

In a good way of course

[60ftman]

FX cars = Factory Experimantal, limited runs for racing purposes.

 

DOH, not THAT Thunderbolt, a FORD THUNDERBOLT-------- http://auto.howstuffworks.com/define-19 ... erbolt.htm

 

Mate, I don't think you're preaching to the converted.

But I appreciate your mention of cammers, and think back with a tear in my eye to the time I turned down one for just over a grand.

I know where there's a Falcon Sprint tucked away with all original fibreglass panelling - not the same kind of thing as the Thunderbolt, more of a touring car, but I'd bet it's up your street.

 

Greetings from the 1960's

 

[3.0s]

darren lewis' mk3 cortina is definately a muscle car along with nightmaresracing van and estate

 

[Doc]

Love that car !

[V8ian]

I know the SDi has been PooPood, but the twin Plenumn 3.5 Vittesse was quite a capable car, 211bhp on a good day

, ETC championship winning car, run by Tom Wilkenshaw, reputidly 350 hp at 8000++ RPM, and did they win the BTTC as well??

[V8ian]

FX cars = Factory Experimantal, limited runs for racing purposes.

 

DOH, not THAT Thunderbolt, a FORD THUNDERBOLT-------- http://auto.howstuffworks.com/define-19 ... erbolt.htm

 

Mate, I don't think you're preaching to the converted.

But I appreciate your mention of cammers, and think back with a tear in my eye to the time I turned down one for just over a grand.

I know where there's a Falcon Sprint tucked away with all original fibreglass panelling - not the same kind of thing as the Thunderbolt, more of a touring car, but I'd bet it's up your street.

 

Greetings from the 1960's

 

 

 

My mate bought andy Harrisis falcon sprint last year, Mmmmmmmmmmm, Luverly. I do know the wearabouts of one one of the ORIGINAL Alan Mann Monte cars, was bought off the original owners widow for a pittance, and not knowing the history of the car when he bought it boy was he surprised when he got it home and thought he had been done when he found all the glass bits on it, It somtimes appears up the pod painted blue but is still on the original number plate, ---7B I think

Is that the same Cammer that turned up at the nats in a black Galaxie a few years ago???, there cant ba many Cammers this side of the Atlantic

[bmxdave]

Ive always thought of a muscle car to be aggresive with a mean stance. Or overly excessive.

 

Jensen CV8 and Interceptor. They didnt need massive engines, and stupid amounts of power, but they did anyway. If you saw one of them closing down on you, in your mirror, youd move out the way wouldnt you?

 

I think where agreed on the Rs3100 and 3000GT. They where genuine british muscle.

 

The Cortina Savage is a Muscle car. Instead of dropping a 2.0 in the used a 3.0 essex and made it one of the fastest 4 door cars availible for years to come.

 

Aston Vantage. The mad, massive scary as fook one from the 80's. Completely over the top in every way. If thats not a muscle car, then im sorry, theres no such thing.

[V8ian]

Ive always thought of a muscle car to be aggresive with a mean stance. Or overly excessive.

 

Jensen CV8 and Interceptor. They didnt need massive engines, and stupid amounts of power, but they did anyway. If you saw one of them closing down on you, in your mirror, youd move out the way wouldnt you?

 

I think where agreed on the Rs3100 and 3000GT. They where genuine british muscle.

 

The Cortina Savage is a Muscle car. Instead of dropping a 2.0 in the used a 3.0 essex and made it one of the fastest 4 door cars availible for years to come.

Aston Vantage. The mad, massive scary as fook one from the 80's. Completely over the top in every way. If thats not a muscle car, then im sorry, theres no such thing.

 

Geoff Urens " Race Proven" were not the only company producing producing V6 cortinas, Mike and Dave Young, in Ilford had their company "SuperSpeed" making all sorts of Go faster fords, including V6 Escorts, Corsairs, Cortinas, Transits and many more, and of course Crayford also jumped onto the boat making V6 Cortinas. SuperSpeed continued making V6 3L Cortinas right up to the Mk5.

BTW, all the above companies made 2 & 4 door V6 cars, Race Proven and Superspeed made estates, and Crayford obviously made convertables and Cabrolets, they also made a number of Mk2 coupes, which were a bit odd looking , removing the C pillar lengthening the scuttle and fitteng a front screen and posts in their place.

[60ftman]

 

And to say that a muscle car was from the "factory only" would write off cars such as the Shelby and Road and Track. These companies were separate from the producers, yet we still regard their cars as "Muscle"

 

Oh, one thing, don;t school someone who loves, lives and breathes American motors. Not you Tazrocks, that was aimed at 60ftman.

 

I still say the true definition of a muscle car is a factory produced vehicle.

Shelby's are muscle cars as Shelby was (at that time) a company entirely funded by Ford. It was essentially just a sattelite production line.

 

I don't think (by definition) a muscle car can be a car retro fitted with a huge engine by an outside company or individual. My RS has muscle, but I don't consider it a muscle car for that very reason.

 

And I'm not trying to school anyone. I thought this train was just a frank exchange of views on what actually constitutes a 'real' muscle car.

 

Just my personal opinion, from someone who also loves, lives, breathes and works with American motors.

[BIGKEV]

Now This is a Proper Muscle Car dont you know

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pimtina]

The first muscle car was the Pontiac GTO. It was based on the mid sized Tempest model which came with either an inline 6 or a 326 cubic inch V-8. The people at Pontiac raided the parts bins and slotted in the 389 from the larger Bonnieville along with bigger brakes etc. Soon all the car makers started doing it. I think a good British equivalent would be the Sunbeam Tiger.

[Slik 50]

Now This is a Proper Muscle Car dont you know

 

Na this one mate

The beardmore brothers V8 kitten

 

 

 

[Nettles]

I agree with 60ftman. The true definition of a muscle car is a factory produced vehicle that offers top of the range sports and performance.

 

The origin of the Muscle car comes from the NASCAR circuits of America. NASCAR’s were based on stock/production cars that were readily available to the public but heavily modified and tuned for the race track. It was only a matter of time before the American public wanted the same performance as they watch at the race track. So the manufactures started to offer more powerful versions of the cars that were already available, and it was these cars that were labelled as Muscle cars.

 

As far as I’m aware this has never happened in the UK, so my opinion is that there are no true British Muscle cars. If an Individual modifies a stock/production car to increase its power and performance I would class this as a Custom or Hot Rod.

[Lee-Mk2]

The origin of the Muscle car comes from the NASCAR circuits of America. NASCAR’s were based on stock/production cars that were readily available to the public but heavily modified and tuned for the race track. It was only a matter of time before the American public wanted the same performance as they watch at the race track. So the manufactures started to offer more powerful versions of the cars that were already available, and it was these cars that were labelled as Muscle cars.

 

 

Sort of sounds like what happened with Ford producing the RS?

I don't think you will ever find a british car that totally fullfills the american muscle car idea as europe always had diff. views of what a more "sporty" or "modified" car should be.

 

If Ford had offered a 5.0 V8 escort in real terms would it have been any better or even as good as a RS2000 on uk roads?

[Rick]

Now This is a Proper Muscle Car dont you know

 

Na this one mate

The beardmore brothers V8 kitten

 

 

 

 

asif theres a drag robin reliant racing it

[Vista]

The origin of the Muscle car comes from the NASCAR circuits of America. NASCAR’s were based on stock/production cars that were readily available to the public but heavily modified and tuned for the race track. It was only a matter of time before the American public wanted the same performance as they watch at the race track. So the manufactures started to offer more powerful versions of the cars that were already available, and it was these cars that were labelled as Muscle cars.

 

 

Sort of sounds like what happened with Ford producing the RS?

I don't think you will ever find a british car that totally fullfills the american muscle car idea as europe always had diff. views of what a more "sporty" or "modified" car should be.

 

If Ford had offered a 5.0 V8 escort in real terms would it have been any better or even as good as a RS2000 on uk roads?

 

Both good points well made, as I see it there can be no argument that there have been plenty of British cars built that do indeed have plenty of muscle, but is that enough to define them as musclecars in the sense of the American definition of the phrase? Probably not but even so, the bulk of the cars that did originate on British soil and do have enough grunt to be considered muscular cars (as opposed to musclecars in the American sense) are in fact probably not quite as powerful but generally better cars all round than their trans atlantic brethren. American muscle cars were after all built with enormous grunt for their huge straight interstate highways, however their brakes and handling were (and in most cases still are) woeful

 

So would I rather have an American Musclecar or a British muscular car?

 

Personally I think when you phrase the question that way, the decision is a no brainer.

[Lee-Mk2]

I know a guy with a Dodge Charger a "true Muscle car" in every sense and I am sure with the powerful engine it has under the bonnet it would be a match for most cars down the strip etc but those drum brakes on the front - that would be a worry!

 

Throw a few bends into the equation and even my little pinto capri would fancy its chances.

[bmxdave]

We may not have had NASCAR, but we did have saloon cars and rally. So if a muscle car is defined by selling a 'hotted up' car, similar to the race cars that the fans want, the surely the Lotus Cortina, Cortina GT's, Escort Twincams, Escort RS1600's, RS2000's, Capri RS3100's and so on are british muscle cars?

 

Afterall, they fullfilled what the track cars required in the same way the NASCAR copied muscle cars required, in that they handled, whereas the american cars where about straight line speed.

 

And our cars where driven equally as dangerously and as fast. Many of the American cars werent that much of a higher top speed, they just got there quicker.

[Nettles]

The question of “is there actually such a thing as a British muscle car” has been doing my brain in all day today! The only true example that I can think of that even comes close is the Ford GT40.

 

The GT40 was designed, built and unveiled in Slough, England by a team of British engineers poached by Ford from other companies such as Lotus, Lola, Cooper and Aston Martin. Originally designed to compete in the 24-hour LeMans the car was fitted with a 7 litre V8 with 485 bhp and this carried the team of 3 GT40’s to victory in 1966 with a 1-2-3 finish.

 

In 1967 the GT40 went into production with a detuned 4.7 litre V8 with 306 bhp. Unfortunately the GT40 was mainly aimed at the American market.

 

Ford GT40. Built in Britain for the American’s. D’OH!....I give up!

[V8ian]

Sunbeam Tiger 289, is still up there for me, then I was thinking about, TVRs come into mind, Start with a 60s TVR 1800s, MGBpowered pretty little sports car. then turns into the Griffith, 289 powed monster,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TVR

 

what about the Gilburn Invader/Genie MGB and later Ford V6 power