Non starting Zetec.

[Radders226]

Hi all, 

I have a 1965 Mk1 Cortina fitted with a 2.0 Zetec and running an Escort 1.8Si EFI system. (Along with the Escort ECU)

Until this morning I have had an intermittent fault where the car feels like it's dying and losing power. This morning my intermittent fault turned into something very permanent which led to me missing the Battlesbridge Breakfast meet and being recovered home on the back of a truck. 😞

Now, I know nothing about these set ups and always said that one of my fears would be that if it wasn't to start one day, I wouldn't even know where to look. Well unfortunately that day is here.

The car does have a socket for an OBD2 reader, but all three code readers I have tried couldn't connect to get a reading.

In recent weeks I have changed the electric fuel pump, the MAF sensor, and spark plugs. The car cranks over but doesn't fire at all even though there is a healthy spark at the plugs. 

Any ideas what to investigate next? 

[Miniliteman]

Petrol in tank? What tank does it have, suitable for injection?

[Radders226]

1 hour ago, Miniliteman said:

Petrol in tank? What tank does it have, suitable for injection?

Plenty of petrol. It has the retro ford Injection tank with the swirl pot. 

It's just now started again. No ideas why, I haven't done anything to fix it. 

It's got to the stage where I'm worried about taking it out in case it breaks down again. 

 

[Miniliteman]

Difficult issue, even more from behind a pc. You could swap other components like spark plug leads and sensors but you will never know what the culprit is/was. Try and find someone with a Ford FDS2000 or WDS diagnostic system (rare these days) or a Lucas Laser 2000 system with the proper SW module. The Laser 2000 is rather popular with Transit Diesel owners maybe you can find one of them near you. If it's a intermittent wiring/connection problem then it can take a long time before you find it.

[katana]

I'm only guessing here but if the fault has been 'long term' ie. not just suddenly happened, and seemingly only occurs after some use and seemingly 'repairs itself' after sitting overnight / period of hours . . . . . . . I would say its a heat issue, something is either heating up or over heating and breaking down electrically. As you confirmed when it happens you still get good sparks (and we assume they are occuring at the right time?) then the usual suspect of coil / coils / coilpack gets discounted so we / you are left with Fuel pump / injectors / computer / MAF device ie. anything responsible for fuel metering. Could be something daft like blocked filter that overheats the pump? That's about as far as my 'remote diagnostics' goes i'm afraid!

[kev the rev]

probably the crank sensor  has had its day

[Radders226]

58 minutes ago, katana said:

I'm only guessing here but if the fault has been 'long term' ie. not just suddenly happened, and seemingly only occurs after some use and seemingly 'repairs itself' after sitting overnight / period of hours . . . . . . . I would say its a heat issue, something is either heating up or over heating and breaking down electrically. As you confirmed when it happens you still get good sparks (and we assume they are occuring at the right time?) then the usual suspect of coil / coils / coilpack gets discounted so we / you are left with Fuel pump / injectors / computer / MAF device ie. anything responsible for fuel metering. Could be something daft like blocked filter that overheats the pump? That's about as far as my 'remote diagnostics' goes i'm afraid!

I had the same thought about it happening when warm, but then last Saturday morning it played up when starting from cold as well. It seems to be very random.  

[Radders226]

1 hour ago, kevs mk2 rs2000 said:

probably the crank sensor  has had its day

Where would I find that? These electrical gubbings are all new to me 🤨

[sierra3dr]

35 minutes ago, Radders226 said:

Where would I find that? These electrical gubbings are all new to me 🤨

number 11

 

https://catalogs.ssg.asia/ford/?lang=en#bWFya2V0PT1ldXJvfHxjYXRfaWQ9PTUwMXx8Y2FiYnI9PUVBfHx0aGs9PTB8fHN0PT02MHx8c3RzPT17IjIwIjoiRXVyb3BlIiwiMzAiOiJFc2NvcnRcL09yaW9uIEVBIDE5OTAtMTk5NSIsIjQwIjoiQVlFIFpldGVjIEUiLCI1MCI6IkFZRTAxIFpldGVjIEUuRW5naW5lXC9CbG9jayBBbmQgSW50ZXJuYWxzIiwiNjAiOiJBWUUwMTAzMCBDeWxpbmRlciBCbG9jayBBbmQgUGx1Z3MifXx8YWxwaGE9PUFZRXx8Z3JvdXA9PUFZRTAxfHxzZWN0PT1BWUUwMTAzMHx8c2V0PT1BWUUwMXx8aW1nPT1EMDAxMTA0OTAzfHxmMTI9PTEwNTAyMjQwKzI4OA%3D%3D

[Radders226]

45 minutes ago, sierra3dr said:

number 11

 

https://catalogs.ssg.asia/ford/?lang=en#bWFya2V0PT1ldXJvfHxjYXRfaWQ9PTUwMXx8Y2FiYnI9PUVBfHx0aGs9PTB8fHN0PT02MHx8c3RzPT17IjIwIjoiRXVyb3BlIiwiMzAiOiJFc2NvcnRcL09yaW9uIEVBIDE5OTAtMTk5NSIsIjQwIjoiQVlFIFpldGVjIEUiLCI1MCI6IkFZRTAxIFpldGVjIEUuRW5naW5lXC9CbG9jayBBbmQgSW50ZXJuYWxzIiwiNjAiOiJBWUUwMTAzMCBDeWxpbmRlciBCbG9jayBBbmQgUGx1Z3MifXx8YWxwaGE9PUFZRXx8Z3JvdXA9PUFZRTAxfHxzZWN0PT1BWUUwMTAzMHx8c2V0PT1BWUUwMXx8aW1nPT1EMDAxMTA0OTAzfHxmMTI9PTEwNTAyMjQwKzI4OA%3D%3D

That's brilliant, thank you. 

[Dave Knight]

Has it got a fuel relay?

[Radders226]

8 minutes ago, Dave Knight said:

Has it got a fuel relay?

I have no idea. I'd have to trace the wiring back. And there's a lot of it! 

[Monza]

probably the crank sensor  has had its day

I had an intermittent fault similar to yours. My crank sensor was ok but the one wire from the sensor plug had broken and was touching the other, although the actual cable looked ok. Usually starting and running fine for anything up to 90 mins before failing....worth a look. Find it under exhaust manifold

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[Dave Knight]

1 hour ago, Radders226 said:

I have no idea. I'd have to trace the wiring back. And there's a lot of it! 

Surely you can get a manual for the engine? It sounds electrical to me. Fuel pump/relay. 

[Rally Pack 2000]

13 hours ago, Radders226 said:

Plenty of petrol. It has the retro ford Injection tank with the swirl pos got to the stage where I'm worried about taking it out in case it breaks down again.

You have a glimpse at how Alfa enthusiasts live their motoring lives. (Im a dead man now 😬 @Vista)

[Johnny Boy]

10 hours ago, Monza said:

I had an intermittent fault similar to yours. My crank sensor was ok but the one wire from the sensor plug had broken and was touching the other, although the actual cable looked ok. Usually starting and running fine for anything up to 90 mins before failing....worth a look. Find it under exhaust manifold

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

I had a loose wire crimp to the crank sensor on mine. Sometimes it would cut out once on a run , sometimes never, sometimes 20 times.

Until I sorted it out , I lost all confidence in it, and didn't want to drive it.

Was a bugger to find the fault, but now its sorted it's I've  got my confidence back.😃

[Miniliteman]

8 hours ago, Rally Pack 2000 said:

You have a glimpse at how Alfa enthusiasts live their motoring lives. (Im a dead man now 😬 @Vista)

Had a co-worker once who proudly showed his newly aquired Alfa 75 Twin Spark. I asked him if he knew why Alfa had a Twin Spark system. He didn't. He wasn't pleased when I said "because when they fail (not if) the one is a backup for the other" ....

[Monza]

I had a loose wire crimp to the crank sensor on mine. Sometimes it would cut out once on a run , sometimes never, sometimes 20 times.
Until I sorted it out , I lost all confidence in it, and didn't want to drive it.
Was a bugger to find the fault, but now its sorted it's I've  got my confidence back.

Yup...thats the one. Confidence gone, but once fixed

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[Radders226]

Well, just out curiosity, I removed the crank shaft sensor this week. It didn't look very promising. I've cleaned it off, but I've also bought a new one to fit anyway, because I have no idea how long this one has been on the car. (I've also bought a new camshaft sensor)

So could all of this crud stuck to the end of the sensor be causing my issues? 

[Johnny Boy]

It won't be helping. It has to run very close to the flywheel, to get a good signal. All that rust and metal dust may interrupt the signal. Those Ford crank sensors are so cheap , I keep a spare in the car. 😃

[Johnny Boy]

Does it start and run , now you have cleaned it ?

[kev the rev]

2 hours ago, Radders226 said:

Well, just out curiosity, I removed the crank shaft sensor this week. It didn't look very promising. I've cleaned it off, but I've also bought a new one to fit anyway, because I have no idea how long this one has been on the car. (I've also bought a new camshaft sensor)

So could all of this crud stuck to the end of the sensor be causing my issues? 

that looks totally fkd, how that got any signal at all begars belief

Edited August 26, 2023 by kevs mk2 rs2000

[Radders226]

1 hour ago, Johnny Boy said:

Does it start and run , now you have cleaned it ?

It does, but to be honest I'd forgotten to update this. The reason it died and wouldn't start was a split fuel hose causing the fuel pressure to drop, so that bit has been done and it started once the fuel line had been replaced.

But it still doesn't start great from cold and still misfires and loses power when driving. Not all the time, just intermittently. 

[kev the rev]

4 hours ago, Radders226 said:

It does, but to be honest I'd forgotten to update this. The reason it died and wouldn't start was a split fuel hose causing the fuel pressure to drop, so that bit has been done and it started once the fuel line had been replaced.

But it still doesn't start great from cold and still misfires and loses power when driving. Not all the time, just intermittently. 

did you replace crank sensor too or just fix the hose?

[Radders226]

20 minutes ago, kevs mk2 rs2000 said:

did you replace crank sensor too or just fix the hose?

Yes, I replaced the crank sensor and camshaft sensor today, but I'm still getting the same symptoms. It wont tick over when being first started and hesitates when being revved.