Firstline FFP445 Fuel Pump Problems

[Vista Estate]

Hi All,

Has anyone else had problems with replacement fuel pumps for Escort Xflow from Firstline. They are FFP445.

I've had two now that have lasted less than 500 miles. The supplier has replaced them without question, but when they have queried a manufacturing problem with Firstline they have said nothing is wrong.

The pump just suddenly stops working and removing the pipe from the carb and cranking the engine shows no fuel. It's a mechanical pump so simple.

When tested off the car there is no suction. When I take it apart I can't see any splits but the diaphragm looks stretched.

I wondered if the diaphragms are inferior. I'm using Shell Premium V Power Unleaded but I wonder if the ethanol is affecting the rubber.

Any thoughts?

[Miniliteman]

Have you fitted the thick fuel pump gasket/insulator?

https://www.burtonpower.com/insulating-block-gasket-fuel-pump-x-flow-fp523.html

[Rally Pack 2000]

Every Firstline product I have ever bought has not worked or simply not up to the job. Their cables are total rubbish. Their accelerator cables for example dont have a strong enough spring to even return the throttle. Im sure some of their products must work ok but I just save myself the aggravation and avoid the brand entirely. It was the constant issues with their products that made me more a devote of original equipment stuff if I can afford it. That said I have never had a single issue with any QH parts. So if I have to go aftermarket thats the logo I look for.

[Vista Estate]

42 minutes ago, Miniliteman said:

Have you fitted the thick fuel pump gasket/insulator?

https://www.burtonpower.com/insulating-block-gasket-fuel-pump-x-flow-fp523.html

Yeah I fitted this on both. They just stop sucking fuel. It's annoying as they are in an awkward place and you need extra long arms.

Off the car there is no suction at all.

I think it's poor quality diaphragms.

[Vista Estate]

5 minutes ago, Rally Pack 2000 said:

Every Firstline product I have ever bought has not worked or simply not up to the job. Their cables are total rubbish. Their accelerator cables for example dont have a strong enough spring to even return the throttle. Im sure some of their products must work ok but I just save myself the aggravation and avoid the brand entirely. It was the constant issues with their products that made me more a devote of original equipment stuff if I can afford it. That said I have never had a single issue with any QH parts. So if I have to go aftermarket thats the logo I look for.

Unfortunately QH are now Firstline l believe. 😕 

[Vista Estate]

1 minute ago, Vista Estate said:

Unfortunately QH are now Firstline l believe. 😕 

I would love to get a NOS AC Delco pump but good ones are like rocking horse droppings and crap ones on fleebay a crazy prices. 

[Rally Pack 2000]

12 minutes ago, Vista Estate said:

Unfortunately QH are now Firstline l believe. 😕 

Hmmmm I will have to check into that, I know that Pinto ones are different cause I checked that very thing to ensure I didnt have a Firstline one or anyone that may source them from the same factory they do.

For Pintos

[Vista Estate]

5 minutes ago, Rally Pack 2000 said:

Hmmmm I will have to check into that, I know that Pinto ones are different cause I checked that very thing to ensure I didnt have a Firstline one or anyone that may source them from the same factory they do.

For Pintos

I saw another post about QH & Firstline as they own Borg & Beck too.

It's a real problem for us all going forward.

[Miniliteman]

2 hours ago, Vista Estate said:

I would love to get a NOS AC Delco pump but good ones are like rocking horse droppings and crap ones on fleebay a crazy prices. 

Think I have a used AC pump, somewhere. Removed from a (running) kitcar engine many years ago. Will look for it tomorrow.

[Rally Pack 2000]

1 hour ago, Vista Estate said:

I saw another post about QH & Firstline as they own Borg & Beck too.

It's a real problem for us all going forward.

Interesting. It makes it tough when they all consolidate and they really are the same parts with different brands on them. While I do avoid Firstline in general I did think their Fuel Pumps were one of their products that were generally ok if you had to use them with generally favourable reports. They weren't cheap Chinese or anything either but I thought they may have been made In Slovenia by PTZ

[Ray]

ok, QH as it originally was, went bust some years ago, firstline/QH/ Borg and beck as far as im aware are all one company now and their massive factory sits on the side of one of the UKs biggest motorways, bragging all 3 brands

an original AC pump wont put up with todays fuel, you will have to de ethanol to use it, and yes thats from experience, in replacement when the AC one failed, we fitted a firstline one which Burtons assured us was ethanol compatable, as nick refuses to de ethanol, thats been on the car for around 4-5 years now, however since restoring that car the pump is showing signs of it being tired, as sat for a week and it takes twice as much cranking to get the fuel up than mine with AC pumps, but not had a short life as you have tho

a couple of issues i have had though is, if you have the incorrect thickness spacer and / or the wrong bolts, the pump isnt tight and oil weeps from the gasket

i use a ford spacer gasket where possible, theres aftermarket bolts and ford bolts if mixed up, that are marginally too long, and they bottom out before its tight

with the AC pumps there were 2 pressure rating ones, one for the 1100/1300 and another for the 1300GT/1600, the latter should be ok for the smaller engine, have burtons sold you a pump with the correct rated pressure 

[Vista Estate]

1 hour ago, Ray said:

ok, QH as it originally was, went bust some years ago, firstline/QH/ Borg and beck as far as im aware are all one company now and their massive factory sits on the side of one of the UKs biggest motorways, bragging all 3 brands

an original AC pump wont put up with todays fuel, you will have to de ethanol to use it, and yes thats from experience, in replacement when the AC one failed, we fitted a firstline one which Burtons assured us was ethanol compatable, as nick refuses to de ethanol, thats been on the car for around 4-5 years now, however since restoring that car the pump is showing signs of it being tired, as sat for a week and it takes twice as much cranking to get the fuel up than mine with AC pumps, but not had a short life as you have tho

a couple of issues i have had though is, if you have the incorrect thickness spacer and / or the wrong bolts, the pump isnt tight and oil weeps from the gasket

i use a ford spacer gasket where possible, theres aftermarket bolts and ford bolts if mixed up, that are marginally too long, and they bottom out before its tight

with the AC pumps there were 2 pressure rating ones, one for the 1100/1300 and another for the 1300GT/1600, the latter should be ok for the smaller engine, have burtons sold you a pump with the correct rated pressure 

Thanks Ray. 

It is the correct pump from a pressure point and has correct bolts and spacer.

I think it's the ethanol issue as the pump doesn't work off the car either and when I stripped to look the diaphragm was very slack.

Something to watch out for.

[Miniliteman]

Found an original AC pump. Used, no guarantee given. Yours for P&P. (I am in the Netherlands).

[Rally Pack 2000]

5 hours ago, Ray said:

ok, QH as it originally was, went bust some years ago, firstline/QH/ Borg and beck as far as im aware are all one company now and their massive factory sits on the side of one of the UKs biggest motorways, bragging all 3 brands

an original AC pump wont put up with todays fuel, you will have to de ethanol to use it, and yes thats from experience, in replacement when the AC one failed, we fitted a firstline one which Burtons assured us was ethanol compatable, as nick refuses to de ethanol, thats been on the car for around 4-5 years now, however since restoring that car the pump is showing signs of it being tired, as sat for a week and it takes twice as much cranking to get the fuel up than mine with AC pumps, but not had a short life as you have tho

a couple of issues i have had though is, if you have the incorrect thickness spacer and / or the wrong bolts, the pump isnt tight and oil weeps from the gasket

i use a ford spacer gasket where possible, theres aftermarket bolts and ford bolts if mixed up, that are marginally too long, and they bottom out before its tight

with the AC pumps there were 2 pressure rating ones, one for the 1100/1300 and another for the 1300GT/1600, the latter should be ok for the smaller engine, have burtons sold you a pump with the correct rated pressure 

Quality always suffers when the competitors all amalgamate. I wonder why the Firstline and QH fuel pumps for Pintos are different though? Old stock maybe?

[Ray]

unless your going to de ethanol, any AC pump will fail fairly quickly, burtons assured us the firstline ones were ethanol resistant, but of course resistant dosnt really mean proof

tbh, not really seen any other options, other than going electric, but that could be just as bad tbh, but ive no experience of the modern electric pumps

i de ethanol mine, then add tetraboost to make proper 4 star, (the smell is lovely and casts back many memories lol) but they dont get driven enough for that to be a pain, but that does seem to stop all the issues

[Miniliteman]

Shell V-Power and BP Ultimate have no ethanol in them, at least over here.

[Vista Estate]

2 minutes ago, Miniliteman said:

Shell V-Power and BP Ultimate have no ethanol in them, at least over here.

Think they have up to 5% here.

[Vista Estate]

5 hours ago, Miniliteman said:

Found an original AC pump. Used, no guarantee given. Yours for P&P. (I am in the Netherlands).

Thanks very much. I've sent you a message.

Regards

Mark 

[Miniliteman]

1 hour ago, Vista Estate said:

Think they have up to 5% here.

They are listed as E5 but do not have ethanol in them (again at least over here).

[Ray]

the ethanol content in our shell v power, bp ultimate (which is still lower octane) and tesco momentum 99, can all carry anything from 0 to 5% in the uk, ive tested the shell and tesco and at time of testing both carried 2-3%, but from what ive read, it varies, as the regs allow the oil companies to vary it, its all about the amount of ethanol fuel theyre selling as to how much they put in, they have to meet a percentage to overall fuel sales, so if the high octane fuel is outselling the regular, they have to feed it into the higher octane, but if lower octane is outselling the higher then they dont, we have 2 2010 vehicles in our house, both peugeots, that cant take E10, despite what they say, so its not just classics it affects, one tank full and you think youve killed the things, ive not tested the BP, as its only 97 octane here, although you can make 4 star from it, not really good enough and better with 98 or 99 octane, but the amount will vary every time you fill up

[Vista]

Just read this thread amd now have a mental image of Ray making 4 star in his man cave.

 

[Jerrytom161]

Lol😂😂😂

[Rally Pack 2000]

13 hours ago, Ray said:

unless your going to de ethanol, any AC pump will fail fairly quickly, burtons assured us the firstline ones were ethanol resistant, but of course resistant dosnt really mean proof

tbh, not really seen any other options, other than going electric, but that could be just as bad tbh, but ive no experience of the modern electric pumps

i de ethanol mine, then add tetraboost to make proper 4 star, (the smell is lovely and casts back many memories lol) but they dont get driven enough for that to be a pain, but that does seem to stop all the issues

I remember that the original Ford pumps for the Pinto were just mainly pressed metal things with a cast mounting bit where it bolts on. Even the after market ones were like that and then suddenly they seem to get alot heavier all over cast things. Was that a direct result of Ethanol failure? I always wondered why the original NOS ones dont seem to get that much interest when I see them for sale.

13 hours ago, Miniliteman said:

Shell V-Power and BP Ultimate have no ethanol in them, at least over here.

Ours are both 98 and ethanol Free. You can get an 95 without ethanol as well but the Escort wont run on it. The main fuel everyone uses though is an ethanol E92 or 94 (It varies depending on company)

9 hours ago, Vista said:

Just read this thread amd now have a mental image of Ray making 4 star in his man cave.

 

When the EV industry convinces the rest of the public we are all evil world destroyers and should be banned from the roads unless we convert cause they saw a cutesy episode of Vintage Voltage on cable one time, we will be knocking on Rays back door in the dead of night trying to score a few pints. "Ray have you got any of that good stuff like last time? It was great sh..."

[Vista Estate]

I've started something now!

I've contacted Firstline about their pumps and the technical team want to check out the manufacturer.

Do we have to pay fuel duty on your 4* @Ray?

[Vista Estate]

Update on the Fuel Pumps FFP445 from Firstline

Firstline have picked up the faulty pumps to investigate further and discuss with their manufacturer.

Watch this space!