Arched Escy Posted March 14, 2007 Report Posted March 14, 2007 it certainly can be a bore, but when people post information that is inacurate then i for one am glad that others are willing to correct it.2 points in question. a time / terminal speed down the 1/4 mile is not a usefull tool to judge 2 (or any other no) of engines by unless they are in the very same unchanged car (like an upgrade.) ref the gaz challenge! a "top notch" zetec install is around 2 grand with all new bits. see retro ford site. sump 170, water 200, mounts 70, altern. kit 70, ecu, t/b's etc 1400 , inlet 50. ashley 170, drill flywheel local 30, anything else worth counting ? and thats with a new t/b setup ! Brake upgrades,suspension and maybe roll cage... thats nothing to do with fitting an engine. if gaz did it why would he upgrade his 6 pot setup ? and his atmo cossy didnt make him cage it ? (only using my mate gaz as its a good example ) Yes,but most people don't have 6 pot setups!
alladdin Posted March 14, 2007 Report Posted March 14, 2007 thats true and i agree that its all sensible upgrade stuff but... i was listing roughly what was NEEDED to fit a zetec, rather than what would make a better car. and if you are really 13 buy a shell NOW and start welding.
Guest MK1gaz Posted March 15, 2007 Report Posted March 15, 2007 Well you can't do much for £5000 these days if buying new bits , especially throttle bodies , ecu's , all the injection bits , engine fitting parts etc . Your ok if using an old engine but zetecs / duratecs / XE'S etc require more money to fit and get running than pintos and x-flows unless making all the bits yourself or you get lucky secondhand . Also a standard modern engine won't be that fast either so tuning it isn't cheap either . Yes you will have to upgrade other parts as well as the engine , so be prepered for a costly shock !!!!!!!! Most advertised prices are nothing like what you actually pay , i've lost count of the £150 bits that REALLY cost £200 when you've got them in your possesion !!!!!
Guest MK1gaz Posted March 15, 2007 Report Posted March 15, 2007 ... take the blinkers of gaz .. And dont mention the 1/4 mile then so often Gary... he has got the blinkers off... the only problem is, Gazicstan is 5 miles off the coast of Reality so he cant see that the rest of the world has moved on and there are other alternatives to the good old Pintosaurus...... I know there are alternatives mate , it's just that most of them are foooookin useless !!!!!!!!! Only the XE's go alright in standardish spec , the zetecs + duratecs aren't much kop and will need heads , cams , pistons etc , etc and even then still can't beat a tuned pinto in a race .
Guest MK1gaz Posted March 15, 2007 Report Posted March 15, 2007 have got one but not to sure weather to use it. the old bucket goes alright as it is or was. i am pulling it apart as i damaged it 3years ago at pod and aint fixed it yet. [bent crank and spun a shell] thats what happens when you put it back in 1st from second at 9 large when aiming for 3rd ooooooops Ok wayne , you've proved the speed of the atmo cossies already , a stroked 2.3 one would really shift and have more torque . The 2.3 pintos go like stink so with the high rpm power increase from the cossie head fitted you would really kick arse
Retromotorsport Posted March 15, 2007 Report Posted March 15, 2007 GAz you need to have a chat with Neil Roper about his Zetecs... then you can quote whats what ... or Jason Langam about Rover K's, BDA's and Xe's or Dave Wilds, or Dave Wills... they all build race winning engines for a lot less than you think.
Guest MK1gaz Posted March 15, 2007 Report Posted March 15, 2007 GAz you need to have a chat with Neil Roper about his Zetecs... then you can quote whats what ... or Jason Langam about Rover K's, BDA's and Xe's or Dave Wilds, or Dave Wills... they all build race winning engines for a lot less than you think. If i had to use a modern engine it would be one of the new 2 litre renault sport ones , they are much better than zetecs and duratecs . Zetecs aint even modern now , they're old hat and change hands for £20
Guest MK1gaz Posted March 15, 2007 Report Posted March 15, 2007 . not bad for 2011cc Yes it's amazing how fast the atmo cossies can go using less than 2.1 litres , carbs and a dizzy , they go faster than most turbos as well according to the clock at santa pod
105Speed Posted March 17, 2007 Report Posted March 17, 2007 In Gazicstan... like in France we are lovin the pinto engine very much...... The bores on my 2.1 pinto are tight like mans anus....
Guest MK1gaz Posted March 17, 2007 Report Posted March 17, 2007 yesssss pleeeeeease why are the 1970's pintos soooooo fast compared to the modern engines . That's because the ticking clock at the drag strip says they are . When lots of the tuned up 250+ bhp modern engine installs can actually overtake the cheaper Harris pinto installs and the 16v pintos in a race only then will they be considered any good by the man on the street . Until that day comes they are just overpriced shite and no better than the 16v pintos which look better + fit straight in an escort using standard ford parts !!!!!!!
emu Posted March 19, 2007 Report Posted March 19, 2007 When retro said stop mentioning the 1/4 so much I'm sure he probably didnt mean substitute it it with 'Drag race' or 'Drag strip'. You might be suprised to know that a lot of people actually drive their cars further than 1/4 of a mile at a time. Shocking I know, but true What the best power that a top spec pinto is making? 230ish BHP? As you have pointed out on numerous occasions it an engine from the 70's. Which means people have been throwing ideas at it for over 30 years. Ive got a book here from the mid 80's which reckons that over 200 from a pinto would need a blower. Years of development have disproved that. The zetec and duratec havent had anything like the same amount of time spent on them (the zetec is what, 15 years old now?), yet are both capable of making similar figures already. What will they be capable of in another 15 years time? Dont get me wrong, the pinto is a good engine, its also has its flaws...............But it wasnt painted in rose coloured paint either.
Guest MK1gaz Posted March 19, 2007 Report Posted March 19, 2007 Yes but "peak" bhp numbers don't really matter in the real world it's the size of the power band that does . A 200 bhp pinto will still punch above it's weight because it has a big fat torquey power band that these modern motors have trouble matching . For example a nicely tuned modern engine will only have more power than a 2.2 pinto from about 7000 rpm upwards . Below that and it's usually much worst , so as soon as the modern engine hits it's power advantage it's all over in a flash as the next gear is selected and the revs fall back . Meanwhile the pinto next to it just keeps on grunting from everywhere it's revs drop off too and just makes up the ground . That's why they're so fast , you need a very expensive modern engine install to outperform one i'm affraid . You may out perform one on paper but in the heat of a burn up the old fella just keeps on in there
Retromotorsport Posted March 19, 2007 Report Posted March 19, 2007 That Gaz is almost the most sensible post you have made on the thread .. Yes the tuned pinto's deliver torque, an 8valve will always do that . But when you look at 2 standard engines the modern cars have the edge on power (under the graph and peak) over the old pinto. This is proven at any race track week in week out when you see a field of cars all the same just different engines. The Duratec is cleaning up , hence why its in a class all on it own. After you have done some work on the pinto, it becomes better , but then so do the modern engines. A 200bhp pinto costs what ..5k a 200bhp zetec ... 3k from the likes of scholar and niel roper. 2 k to fit the engine in a escort ... (allthough thats using gold plated bolts ) so both engines work out the same... or do they.. the Zetec is only mildly tuned to get the power, and will last a lot longer, and will run cleaner, and more economical ... so saving money in the long run. It has been said that the reason why the pinto was dropped from the Ford engine range was that it couldnt meet emissions standards .. well thats bullshit, any 4 stroke petrol engine can meet these standards, its the fueling and exhaust that do the emissions. Sorry Gaz but when an emission choked standard* pinto makes more power than a standard Zetec i'll agree with you.. till then (*standard as in untouched from the manufactures spec) "The King is dead... long live the King" "All good things come to end" "he had a good innings" " the model T is the car of the future " "the earth is flat" " if you go above 25mph on one of these new fangled steam trains you'll suffocate" "evolution is the mother of invention "
w p e Posted March 19, 2007 Report Posted March 19, 2007 Yes but "peak" bhp numbers don't really matter in the real world it's the size of the power band that does . A 200 bhp pinto will still punch above it's weight because it has a big fat torquey power band that these modern motors have trouble matching . For example a nicely tuned modern engine will only have more power than a 2.2 pinto from about 7000 rpm upwards . Below that and it's usually much worst , so as soon as the modern engine hits it's power advantage it's all over in a flash as the next gear is selected and the revs fall back . Meanwhile the pinto next to it just keeps on grunting from everywhere it's revs drop off too and just makes up the ground . That's why they're so fast , you need a very expensive modern engine install to outperform one i'm affraid . You may out perform one on paper but in the heat of a burn up the old fella just keeps on in there good call but this could go on forever. maybe time for a new subject? be fore the site need some more ram to keep up
105Speed Posted March 19, 2007 Report Posted March 19, 2007 Perhaps this would make for an excellent feature in Retro Ford magazine.. A proper Old School vs New School thrash at Brunters. Gaz find 10 Pinto Luvvas and the rest of us 16v boys will find some New School and settle it there and then, once and for all. 0-60, 1/4 mile, 0-100 and top speed But Specs have to be evenly matched to prove your theories. So a 180bhp Zetec against a 180bhp Pintosaurus etc etc
Retromotorsport Posted March 19, 2007 Report Posted March 19, 2007 Niel ...thats just opening a can of worms... " my car lost because its a street car and it was up against a stripped out racers ... well it didnt have rear seats " "my car lost because its on 175's and the tyres on the other car were hoooooge" At the end of the day the facts still remain .. modern engines are more efficient and more powerfull in their standard forms.. but .. its up to who ever owns the car to put whatever in their car .
Morley Posted March 19, 2007 Report Posted March 19, 2007 Perhaps this would make for an excellent feature in Retro Ford magazine.. A proper Old School vs New School thrash at Brunters. Gaz find 10 Pinto Luvvas and the rest of us 16v boys will find some New School and settle it there and then, once and for all. 0-60, 1/4 mile, 0-100 and top speed But Specs have to be evenly matched to prove your theories. So a 180bhp Zetec against a 180bhp Pintosaurus etc etc It's a good idea but it will depend upon all parties being grown up enough to admit defeat should it happen. Wayne, black shirt and whistle on standby!
105Speed Posted March 19, 2007 Report Posted March 19, 2007 Niel ...thats just opening a can of worms... " my car lost because its a street car and it was up against a stripped out racers ... well it didnt have rear seats " "my car lost because its on 175's and the tyres on the other car were hoooooge" At the end of the day the facts still remain .. modern engines are more efficient and more powerfull in their standard forms.. but .. its up to who ever owns the car to put whatever in their car . But Gary I thought Gaz was a street racer living his live 1/4 mile at a time.... on the street anything goes... you cant suddenly start bleating at the lights that someone has taken their back seat out... This is drag racing not a single make formula
Mk 1 Mark Posted March 19, 2007 Report Posted March 19, 2007 Niel ...thats just opening a can of worms... " my car lost because its a street car and it was up against a stripped out racers ... well it didnt have rear seats " "my car lost because its on 175's and the tyres on the other car were hoooooge" At the end of the day the facts still remain .. modern engines are more efficient and more powerfull in their standard forms.. but .. its up to who ever owns the car to put whatever in their car . But Gary I thought Gaz was a street racer living his live 1/4 mile at a time.... on the street anything goes... you cant suddenly start bleating at the lights that someone has taken their back seat out... This is drag racing not a single make formula No grip @ bunters ...blah blah blah.... Im up for this...any excuse to rag my car around brunters
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